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Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-22-2001 at 05:14 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Akhi Iakov,

In Luqa 9:53, we read the Greek with astonishment:

kai; oujk ejdevxanto aujtovn, o&ti to; provswpon aujtou' h\n poreuovmenon eij #Ierousalhvm.

"....because his face was set toward Jerusalem"

Face was set toward Jerusalem? What does that mean in Greek?

In Semitic idiom, "to set one's face..." means 'to make up one's mind', and is quite frequent in Semitic thought. Reference the following verses:


  • Amos 9:4
  • Jeremiah 3:12
  • Jeremiah 21:10
  • Jeremiah 42:15
  • Jeremiah 44:12
  • 2 Kings 12:17
  • Daniel 11:17
  • Ezekiel 6:1
  • Ezekiel 13:17
  • Ezekiel 14:8
  • Ezekiel 15:7

Again, in the commentary portion of Luqa.
The idiom is also present in verse 51.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Iakov
 
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1. RE: Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-23-2001 at 08:15 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Akhi Paul,

Now I'm confused.

You say it is Semitic idiom. So to "set ones face" is equivalent to "make up one's mind".

Bivin & Blizzard, in "Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus" (pp. 163-167), blast the translation you give. In fact in "Good News For Modern Man" the translation is "...made up his mind..." and Bivin & Blizzard say this translation misses the point and makes Y'Shua appear to be undecided about the crucifiction until this point in time. They contend the idiom means to simply "head in that direction".

Dr. Blizzard is Prof. of Biblical Studies and Hebrew at Texas University where as Mr. Bivin resides in Israel and is the editor of the "Jerusalem Perspective".

So if Semitic idiom cannot agree how can Greek be expected to solve the difference?

Either way sounds like a "Q" source. Also frequently the phrase appears in LXX as parts of the body are frequently used in Semitisms.

Shlaama,
Iakov.

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James_Trimm
 
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2. RE: Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-23-2001 at 08:37 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 

Well I agree with Bivin and Blizzard as to the meaning of the idiom (I had not noticed Paul's understanding of it) however that is irrelevant to the point. It is CLEARLY a Hebrew/Aramaic idiom and it is CLEARLY in the narrative portion of Luke.

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Iakov
 
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4. RE: Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-23-2001 at 03:20 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
I also agree it is a purely Semitic idiom and the source is semitic whether oral or written. This is indisputable by any student of the GNT.

Shlaama
Iakov.

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3. RE: Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-23-2001 at 08:41 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Shlama Akhi Iakov,

Did you read the verses I supplied with the exact same idiom from Tanakh?

Do they look like they mean "head in that direction" to you?

Either way, are you admitting that this is a Semitic idiom (whatever you think it means)?

If so, will you admit that, being in the commentary portion of Luke, it is powerful evidence for Luke writing in Aramaic?

I have yet to see a Greek idiom in Luke's narrative. Let me know when you find one.


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Iakov
 
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5. RE: Luqa Aramaic Idiom #3

Mar-23-2001 at 04:38 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
>Shlama Akhi Iakov,
>
Shlama Akhi Paul
>
Did you read the verses I
>supplied with the exact same
>idiom from Tanakh?

Yes did from the MT with some help from your grammar ironically, focusing on the Dan 11 passage it makes sense that the King of the North "turns in that direction" just as much as he "makes up his mind".

>Do they look like they mean
>"head in that direction" to
>you?
>
>Either way, are you admitting that
>this is a Semitic idiom
>(whatever you think it means)?

Yes, as I have said before the GNT is full of Semitic idiom and knowledge of Heb & Aram is essential, just as the LXX is full of Semitic idiom.
>
>
>If so, will you admit that,
>being in the commentary portion
>of Luke, it is powerful
>evidence for Luke writing in
>Aramaic?

It is Semitic in the narrative as I have agreed and therefor his source whether written or oral is idiomatic but it does not mean that the entire Gospel was written in Aramaic. If that were so the entire gospel would be in poor Greek like 2nd Peter but it is not.

>I have yet to see a
>Greek idiom in Luke's narrative.
> Let me know when
>you find one.

Mit'asif. I have been very busy responding to your comments.

Refer to my comments on Lk 1:66 for the classical Greek found in Lk 2:19.

Shlaama,
Iakov.

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
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Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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