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Akhi Andrew......

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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Akhi Andrew......

Apr-05-2001 at 12:56 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Akhi Myaqra,

An interesting article from the Catholic Encyclopedia: under Hegesippus (Did you reference this in your book?)

A writer of the second century, known to us almost exclusively from Eusebius, who tells us that he wrote in five books in the simplest style the true tradition of the Apostolic preaching. His work was entitled hypomnemata (Memoirs), and was written against the new heresies of the Gnostics and of Marcion. He appealed principally to tradition as embodied in the teaching which had been handed down in the Churches through the succession of bishops. St. Jerome was wrong in supposing him to have composed a history. He was clearly an orthodox Catholic and not a "Judaeo-Christian", though Eusebius says he showed that he was a convert from Judaism, for he quoted from the Hebrew, he was acquainted with the Gospel according to the Hebrews and with a Syriac Gospel, and he also cited unwritten traditions of the Jews. He seems to have belonged to some part of the East, possibly Palestine. He went on a journey to Corinth and Rome, in the course of which he met many bishops, and he heard from all the same doctrine. He says: "And the Church of the Corinthians remained in the true word until Primus was bishop in Corinth; I made their acquaintance in my journey to Rome, and remained with the Corinthians many days, in which we were refreshed with the true word. And when I was in Rome, I made a succession up to Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And in each succession and in each city all is according to the ordinances of the law and the Prophets and the Lord" (Euseb., IV, 22).

And further in the article:

The date of Hegesippus is fixed by the statement that the death and apothesis of Antinous were in his own time (130), that he came to Rome under Anicetus (154-7 to 165-8) and wrote in the time of Eleutherus (174-6 to 189-91).


And from Eusebius (260 ~ 340), in Church History, Book IV, Chapter 22:

....And from the Syriac Gospel according to the Hebrews he quotes some passages in the Hebrew tongue, showing that he was a convert from the Hebrews, and he mentions other matters as taken from the unwritten tradition of the Jews. And not only he, but also Irenaeus and the whole company of the ancients, called the Proverbs of Solomon All-virtuous Wisdom. And when speaking of the books called Apocrypha, he records that some of them were composed in his day by certain heretics. But let us now pass on to another.

Now, some interesting observations:


  • The existence of a 'Syriac' (Aramaic) Gospel early in the 2nd century.
  • The Jewish believers (Nazarenes) used a 'Syriac' version of the Gospels.
  • The time of Hegesippus 130-191.
  • The Odes of Solomon are referenced by him and Irenaeus.
  • His connection with the churches in Rome and Corinth.

What thinkest thou?


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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James_Trimm
 
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1. RE: Akhi Andrew......

Apr-05-2001 at 02:39 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 

Yes he was an ancient Nazarene writer.

Small portions of his writings survive.

According to Eusebius in his writings he mad use of the Gospel according to the Hebrews (an apocryphal Gospel which was in use by Nazarenes) and "The Syriac" indicating his use od the Aramaic NT.

He lived and wrote around 180 C.E..

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2. RE: Akhi Andrew......

Apr-05-2001 at 03:04 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Akhi,

It appears that he wrote very late in life, and that he was alive in the year 130 (according to the Catholic Encyclopedia article).

That would make him almost a contemporary of the Apostles, certainly of their direct successors.

I think that is our earliest (independent) indication of the existence of the Aramaic NT at that time.

I also like the indication of the age of the Odes of Solomon.


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4. RE: Akhi Andrew......

Apr-05-2001 at 09:30 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
I was going by memory on the date. You are more likely correct.

Trimm

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Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
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3. RE: Akhi Andrew......

Apr-05-2001 at 03:21 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Akhi Khabiba w'Malpana!

I do refer to Hegisippius briefly in the book, but, after seeing these specifics, I wish I had gone into greater detail. I actually spend more time talking about Papias, who was a contemporary of "Heg" (dead 130) and who, also like Heg is quoted only in Eusebius, who preserves a lot of this stuff which is apparently lost now.

Papias, who was very old when he died in 130, was taught by the apostle John, and is therefore a FIRST CENTURY witness to Hebrew/Aramaic Matthew that PRECEDES the Greek. His famous statement, often quoted here, is "Matthew composed (ta logia) the sayings of Jesus in the Hebrew (Hebraidi) tongue and everyone translated them as best they could."

Therefore, it is clear that Heg and Pap are talking about the same thing. Origen is a late second and early third century witness WHEN HE IS WRITING ABOUT THINGS EITHER FROM THE TIME OF THE APOSTLES OR SHORTLY THEREAFTER. His qutoation of Peshitta Hebrews proves that the complete Peshitta canon had circulated at least 250 years before most western scholars acknowledge.

Also Eusebius, who is a fourth century chronicler, is considered highly reliable even by the RCC that takes a Greek primacist stance. Eusebius is also a contemporary of Epiphanus, who wrote that Hebrew/Aramaic Matthew had spread all the way to India, again implying it existed well before that time.

I will see if Xlibris will allow a minor addition, but even if they don't, I cover almost all of this pretty comprehensively. I can also change my introductory notes free and might be able to slip that in without a problem.

Stay tuned!

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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