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Akhi Rudolf....

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Akhi Rudolf....

May-01-2001 at 01:51 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama,

You wrote on the Guestbook....


I'm a starter here and this is a fabulous work. But may i know Aramaic manuscript in NT? is it available online?

The entire 22-book canon of the Peshitta NT, as recognized by the Church of the East, is available on this website under the red "Peshitta" button.

I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but printed books can be purchased as well. Let me know which one you meant.


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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1. Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-05-2001 at 10:09 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama,

Akhi Paul, I meant on Peshitta is what's the name of ancient manuscripts that was penned in Aramaic?
Is it Khabouris MSS?

Because when I read this site:
http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/Versions.html#Syriac
it is said that The New Testament was penned in Greek.

Thank you.

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2. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-06-2001 at 10:34 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Shlama Akhi Rudolf,

Actually, there are many (hundreds) of Peshitta manuscripts from the 4th or 5th century through to the 9th century that have survived. Khabouris is only one - other important ones are the so-called "Mortimer-Mcawley" and "Sinai Syriac 2" manuscripts, which date from the 7th and 5th/6th century, respectively.


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3. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-07-2001 at 09:37 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
Shlama w'Burkate,

Dear Mr. Younan,

I am pleased with your information, but I still need a complete information on Peshitta manuscripts. Would you please tell me the whole thing about this?

As you know, we are here have built (but informal performance) a foundation to learn oriental churches. And for myself I still confuse with NT text, some scholars say in Greek manuscripts and others said from Aramaic/Hebrew manuscripts.
Would you please help to solve this confuses with your lecture.

Last thing, we have a web maybe you would to sign our guest book and give your commentary (but we are here not professional scholar like yours)

http://run.to/yakos

Toda raba.

Rudolf A.Luhukay

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4. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-07-2001 at 10:56 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Shlama Akhi Rudulf!

No problem, no "professional" scholars here, either. I'm certainly not one.

I visited your web page! WOW - the Church has survived in Indonesia! How did this happen? We had thought that Timurlane had wiped almost everyone out, especially in Southeastern Asia. I've heard there are some 12 million underground Christians (Aramaic, "Nestorian") in China, have you heard anything about them? Do they still function through the Aramaic model?

Are you now under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Antioch ("Jacobite?")

I'm fascinated, please tell me more. I saw your articles on the website, but they are not in English.

I'll try to write up something more formal about the history of the Peshitta, but for starters please refer to the button on the left titled "Peshitta History."

Thanks!


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5. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-08-2001 at 05:16 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 

We also have an assembly of Nazarene Jews
in Indonesia.

Trimm

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6. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-08-2001 at 10:13 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
That fascinating - this is all great news. From what I understand, Indonesia is 99% Muslim. It would be great to hear of any other pockets of Aramaic Christianity/Messianic Judaism surviving in this part of the world.

The CoE, for instance used to have a metropolitan bishop in Java, of all places, back in the 12th century.


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9. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-10-2001 at 10:11 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #6
 
Shlama Akhi Paul,

Here I give you an article about us, please correct me if I wrong.

*The Assyrian Church had landed down in Indonesia since 7th Centuries*


A fact that the Assyrian Church had landed down at Barus (645 C.E). This history had been recorded by a Moslem scholar Syaikh Abu Salih al-Armini in his book under title Tadhakur fiba Akhbar min al-Kanais wa al-Adyar min Nawabin Mishri wa al-Iqtaaih ( The list of the news on the churches and the monastries in the Egypt provinces and surrounded). 1)
The list of the churches and monastries of the original manuscripts in Arabic with 114 pages, which contain the news about 707 churches and 181 the Christian monastries which spread out around Egypt, Nubia, Abysina, West Africa, Spain, Arabic and Indian. Within his book (Abu Salih), the land of Indonesia still was put in the al-Hindah (Indian) territory. Absolutely at the times, the country of the farthest sea was called Hindia too and the Ocean was put into the South of Indian until to the East was called Indian sea.2)
After Abu Salih wrote down about the churches at Kullam (Quilon) and the churches at Fansur (Barus). Thus we read Abu Salih explanation in the Arabic text:
Fansur, fiha idda biya wa jami min biha min an-Nashara Nashatorah, wa hal fiha kadzalika. Wa hiya allatiy yasala minha al-Kafur, wa hadza al-Sinfu yanbuka min al-khasah. Wa hadzihi al-Madinat biha biat wahidat ala ismi Sittna al-Saydat al-Adzra marat Maryam. 3)
Fansur, overthere there was many churches and all the Christians and they were the Eastern Syrian 4) and so this is the condition of the churches. At the town there was established the church with the name : Sayidatina Siti maryam al-Adzra ( our Lady, the Pure Virgin Mary).
Abu Salih al-Armini who worked at the third time of the last khulafat/the caliph of Fatimiyah in Egypt (115 1171 C.E) who write down the books based on the Arabic sources beyond the time, such as : Abu al-Hussain Ali bin Muhammad al-Shabushti, Kitab al-Adyar (990 C.E) and Abu Jafar Ath Thabariy, Tarikh ar-Rasul wa al-Muluk (923 C.E). At the center of Christianity knowledgement in the past time such as, Nisibis, Harran, Yundi Shapur and Bagdad, the christian scholars work together with moslems scholars. The top achievement of the relationship of the Christians-the Moslems was in the science development at the Arabic land was happened when the time of the caliph al-Mamun 833 C.E had opened Bait al-hikmah (House of Wisdom), which was led by two Christian monk: Yusuf bin Adi and Hunayn bin Ishaq. The Christians side had opened the treasure of the Syrian/Aramaic culture and had translated the Philosophy and the Art of the Greek into Arabic.5)
There is another story on Chritianity in Indonesia according to the history of Indonesia before and after 645 C.E such as Mar Abdhisho (Arab: Abdi Isa) had ordained as Metropolitan of Chaldean Church (Rules of Ecclesiastical Judments 1318 C.E had mentioned that Metropolitan of the isles of the SeaDabag, Sin and Masin 6) His writing was recognized in the theology and in the canonic of law of the church in Aramaic/Syriac and Arabic.
Dabag, sometimes was spelled as Dabag and Jabag it is an Arabic word for Java and Sumatera at one time since 10th centuries. Patriarkh Elias V in 1503 C.E had sent 3 Metropolitan in Indian and the isles of the sea between Dabag, Sin and Masin. 7) They are Mar Jab Alaha, Mar Denha and Mar Yaqub. 8)


Literature:
1. Abu Salih The Armenian, The Churches and Monastries of Egypt and Some Neighbouring Countries. Edited by B.T.E. Evvets (Oxford:At the Clarendon Press, 1969), p.16
2. Ibid, p.299.
3. Y.W.M. Bakker,Umat Katolik Perintis Indonesia, dalam M.P.M Muskens Pr, Sejarah Gereja Katolik Indonesia (Jakarta: Bagian Dokumentasi Penerangan MAWI, 1976), p.38.
4. Prof. Sutjipto Wiryosaputro, Agama Kristen telah meluas di Indonesia sejak abad ke 7, dalam Majalah Manusia Indonesia, No.4/1970, p. 151-156.
5. Y.W.M. Bakker, Op.Cit, p.30-31.
6. John C. England, The Hidden History of Christianity in Asia: The Churches of the East before 1500 (New Delhi-Hongkong: ISPCK and CCA, 1996), p.98.
7. Ibid.
8. Y.W.M. Bakker, SJ. Op.Cit, p.34


Source: The Flash Back of The Indonesian History, Syriac Christian in India and in Indonesia by Bambang Noorsena, March 10th, 2000.


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10. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-10-2001 at 10:11 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #6
 
Shlama Akhi Younan,

When I saw the archives I found this:

>After the Muslim conquest of Mesopotamia, the >Patriarch of Babylon was always called 'Head of >the Nazarenes' by the Arab Caliphs (See Dr. >Wigram, "History of the Assyrian Church.)

May I kow this book or can I have this book/copy of this book?

And I would like to know how can I read such as:
"Fk^rwbw 0ml4" would you mind to tell me about this "prolitics(?)"

Thank you

Rudolf


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7. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-10-2001 at 10:11 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
Dear Mr. James Trimm,

Yes I knew the Nazarene Jews in Indonesia, but may I know from you about Paleografi, etc when you tell me about ancient manuscripts?

Thank you.

Rudolf

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8. RE: Khabouris Manuscripts

Aug-10-2001 at 10:11 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 
Shlama Akhi Paul,

I'm sorry too late to response your email.

>I've heard there are some 12 million underground >Christians (Aramaic, "Nestorian") in China, have >you heard anything about them? Do they still >function through the Aramaic model?

Yes a little bit from the internet (nestorian web but not CoE). I think I have no idea in China.

>Are you now under the jurisdiction of the >Patriarch of Antioch ("Jacobite?")

I think I have to say that we're here NOT a Church but we're here kind of an informal institute under the name Intitute for Syriac Christian Studies, so we try to learn about all Oriental Churches property include Jews and another faith which locate in Indonesia. But so far I have contact with Western Syriac and friends from Nazarene Jews in Indonesia and of course our friend Moslems and Hindu so that's why I need more information from CoE.

(continue)


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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

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