John 10:30 and "one"

I was reading a Muslim's response to the traditional explanation of John 10:30 in which this person stated that the Greek word used here for one is "hen". He said that "hen' means one, as in unity, whereas if John had wanted to convey a "one" as numerically he would have used the Greek word "heis".

I think the Greek translator did use the Greek word "heis", that is if I have read the Greek version correctly. The original Aramaic however uses the word "dx".

Can the word "dx" mean one in unity rather than one in numerical form? If it can mean both what dictates our understanding of this verse as meaning one in number? Obviously the Jews who heard Jesus say this understood it to mean one in number (see succeeding verses) rather than unity. Howevere, grammatically, is there anything there which dictates a meaning of numerical one.

I vaguely remember something of this sort being covered a couple of years ago on this site but can locate it.

Thanks Paul,

Keith

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Akhi Keith,

There is nothing grammatically which would differentiate between the two meanings - as the Aramaic word for 'one' is as ambigious as the English. The Aramaic word 'Khad' can mean 'in unity' or it can mean in numerical form - I've seen it used both ways. The context should be the judge in this case (if, that is, it was a little more self-explanatory.)

If I remember correctly, the post dealing with John 10:30 about a year ago was critical of Lamsa's adding the words '...in accord' to the original 'I and my Father are one.'

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

In reply to message #1
 
Dear Paul,

"It's a Lamsa-ism. His theology is definetely showing through here!
The Peshitta reads "I and my Father, we are ONE"."

I found your earlier post. Lamsa maybe thought it is an idiom? It can be easily that I'm wrong but it would be similar that in the case of Elijas=John?

Luqa 1.17
17. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Some esoteric people tries prove the reincarnation with these verse because they understand it literally and said Elias incarnated in John . But all studies explain this as idiom what means "with same power and spirit like Elias had".

Eshoo used this term in another verse:
Jn. 17.22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

In this place did Eshoo think all who believe in him, will be Christ = will be God?
I'm very sad . I'm very little to understand so complex things.

Sorry if I "mix" things I'm only thinking...

cheers,
Gabor

In reply to message #0
 
Hi Keith,

I thought I might share my thoughts about your inquiry:

You might compare this verse in John 10 with Yeshua's declaration of the Shema as 'puqdana qadmaya', the first commandment:
"Shma Israel Marya Alahan Marya KHAD Hu."
Marqus 12:29.

This, of course, parallels the Hebrew "Shema YisraEl, YHWH Eloheinu YHWH EKHAD"

Khad is also used in the Syriac translation of Deuteronomy 6:4.

Paul also discusses our unity with Messiah in Galatians and other places, using 'khad'.

So, 'khad' can absolutely mean 'one' as in unity! There are many verses in the OT and NT that will show this.

Shalma,
Rob

In reply to message #3
 
Hi Rob;

Glad to have you on board. Great point, I have thought about this profound declaration of our Lord for years. Due to the fact I am a former Mormon, who are polytheists, this verse made an incredible impact on my life and my understanding of person of the Messiah once I became born again.

Your point using the Schema (sic?) is succinct and irrefutable. I like that.

Thanks,
Keith