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Acts 1 Uploaded.

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-03-2002 at 04:22 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Last edited by Paul Younan on Feb-03-2002 at 04:23 PM (CT)

Shlama l'Kulkhon,

I have just finished uploading Acts 1. It feels good to be back translating after almost a one-year break!

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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StephenSilver
 
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1. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-03-2002 at 06:47 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Sh'lama Akhi Paul:
I want you to know how precious it is to all of us, that you, a native Aramaic speaker, take the time and spend the energy, to translate the New Testament, as you are doing.
Moreover, you make it very easy for all of us to comment, question, and discuss the "fine art" of translation of the New Testament. You've shown yourself to be a true "team player". Many thanks Akhi Paul.

Fkrwbw 0ml4
Stephen Silver.

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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2. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-04-2002 at 00:26 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Shlama Akhi Stephen,

Thank you for your undeserved kind words.

If there's one thing I would say in response it's this: don't ever trust me or anyone else to tell you what this text says. I'm an imperfect human being and an unworthy sinner. Always seek to question everything I say to you and look at my English translation as an imperfect opinion from a far too imperfect individual.

This is always a work-in-progress. There are numerous errors in it and there will always be numerous errors in it. That's the nature of a translation - it mirrors the translator more so than he/she would like to admit.

The original Aramaic has no errors in it. Look at that and study it - they are the words that left Messiah's lips. Use the English as a guide only - and even then, with caution.

And keep studying - as I will. Don't let this language die.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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StephenSilver
 
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3. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-04-2002 at 01:49 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
Sh'lama Akhi Paul:
Well said! I find it interesting though, that your translation by and large "rings true". Perhaps it's because you have chosen "plain words" that do not have any particular "agenda".
Your Interlinear Translation gives us a "starting point", from which to study the original language. We know you're not perfect, Akhi, but we love you just the same.
Keep up the good work.

Fkrwbw 0ml4
Stephen Silver.

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Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
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4. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-04-2002 at 01:49 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
We (Stephen and I) know these words are deserved and appreciate your humility above all things.

Akhi Paul, the fact is that what there may not be in the way of perfection is greatly improved in the area of scholarly fairness. Your decision for an interlinear with lexicon lookup gives anyone the ability to explore the choices you made for themsselves. That is something no plain block of English text of any translation has ever done.

There is perfection and there is "best available", and in my view your translation of the Gospels is surely the latter. Revise it for the rest of your life by all means Akhi but also know the extent of what the Holy Spirit has allowed you to do.

I am honored to study at your feet.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

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howard
 
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5. Acts 1

Feb-05-2002 at 01:49 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Congratulations Akhi Paul
It's encouraging to see things moving here again.

In this chapter I find 3 things intriguing which you could perhaps comment on:

1) The bracketed '<she>' in verse 13 - I see that '(upper) room' is feminine, so I don't understand what you see here ...

2) The phrase in verse 12 'and distant from it as seven furlongs'. This compares with the English Greek-based NT 'being distant a sabbath's journey'. One appears to be an interpretation of the other?

3) The phrase in verse 19 'in the tongue of the area Khaqel Dema that is interpreted the field of blood'. Why does it need interpreting? The word Khaqela appears at least 4 times in Luq as field. It's also intriguing why, in the 'interpretation', the different word for field tyrwq is used. Are there shades of meaning here?

Maran Atha
Howard

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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6. RE: Acts 1

Feb-05-2002 at 05:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
Shlama Akhi Howard!

Thanks - it's good to be "back on the job" again.

>
>1) The bracketed '<she>' in verse 13 - I see >that '(upper) room' is feminine, so I don't >understand what you see here ...
>

If a word would be redundant or just plain sound out of place in the English, I include it in angle brackets.

In this case, the bracketed '<she>' is referring to the linguistically feminine "Alaytha" ("upper area") but would kind of interrupt the proper "flow" of the English.

>2) The phrase in verse 12
>'and distant from it as
>seven furlongs'. This compares with
>the English Greek-based NT 'being
>distant a sabbath's journey'. One
>appears to be an interpretation
>of the other?

That's an interesting observation in that the word for "Sabbath" is the number "Seven." So, indeed, this may point to what many Greek-primacist scholars now generally admit - that the first 14 chapters of the Greek versions of Acts come from an Aramaic source.

>
>3) The phrase in verse 19
>'in the tongue of the
>area Khaqel Dema that is
>interpreted the field of blood'.
>Why does it need interpreting?
>The word Khaqela appears at
>least 4 times in Luq
>as field.
>

A few observations here:


  • Luke was a resident of Antioch in Syria. The dialect spoken in Antioch was different than the dialect spoken in the vicinity of Jerusalem (as Luke himself attests.) (This is demonstrated below.)
  • There is a high probability that "Theophilus", to whom Luke was writing, was a resident of Antioch like Luke, too. If so, it would double the reason why Luke would interpret "Khaqel Dema" - perhaps Theophilus was not a linguist and wouldn't understand the fine details on the differences between dialects.


>
>It's also intriguing
>why, in the 'interpretation', the
>different word for field >face="Estrangelo (V1.1)" size="5"]tyrwq
>is used. Are there shades of
>meaning here?
>

No difference in shades of meaning. "Koryat Dam" says the same thing as "Khaqel Dema" - just in a different dialect. The word "Koryat" is simply the Construct state followed by the Absolute "Dam" which is common feature of Gentile (Galilean, Samaritan and Antiochene) Aramaic.

In Judean Aramaic the pattern for noun constructs that are in a genitive or limiting relationship typically is:


  • Construct-Construct (like Beth-Lehem)
  • or, Absolute-Emphatic (like Khaqel-Dema)

Whereas the non-Judean pattern typically is:


  • Construct-Absolute (like Koryat-Dam)
  • or, Construct-Emphatic (like Beth-Tsaida (Bethesda) in Galilee)

Since there is no Construct State for the Emphatic noun "Khaqla" - Luke substituted "Koryat" which means the same thing and happens to follow the Antiochene literary pattern for nouns in a genitive or limiting relationship.

He's just translating for his fellow Antiochene.

Hope this helps!

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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howard
 
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9. RE: Acts 1

Feb-06-2002 at 12:54 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #6
 
Shlama Akhi Paul

I'm really impressed by your explanations! Amazing what's there if you know what you're looking at!.

Just one small side issue: 'Since there is no Construct State for the Emphatic noun "Khaqla" ... ' Why isn't there?

Thankyou
Maran Atha
Howard

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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10. RE: Acts 1

Feb-06-2002 at 02:56 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #9
 
Shlama Akhi Howard,

Words which have an irregular root (more than 3 consonants), and which end in Alaph, typically do not have a Construct state - since by dropping the final Aleph (as required by the Construct State) - you would simply end up with the same spelling as the Absolute State.

Hope that made sense.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
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11. Sabbath's day journey

Feb-09-2002 at 11:14 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
Hi Akhi Howard:

Actually "seven furlongs" appears to be a very rough estimate, to say the least. A sabbath's day journey is 2000 cubits. While we don't know the exact measurement of a cubit though we are sure that it is no less than 18 and no more than 22 inches. Therefore, the maximium allowable sum for a sabbath day journey is 44,000 inches.

Now a FURLONG is 220 yards, so to convert we have to multiply it by 36 to get inches (7920) and then multiply that sum times 7, for a total of 55,440 inches. (A mile-- at 5,280 feet-- is 63,360 inches)

44,000 inches therefore amounts to about 5.5 furlongs...unless of course they were using the arm of Goliath to do the sum???? )

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

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discipledaniel
 
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7. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-05-2002 at 09:01 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Greetings Paul,

I was wondering about the choice of using Spirit of Holiness instead of Holy Spirit like you did in the gospels. Is that because of the discussion a little while ago about it with James and Rob? Or just to be more accurate? Just wondering...

God Bless,

Daniel

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8. RE: Acts 1 Uploaded.

Feb-05-2002 at 11:45 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #7
 
Shlama Akhi Daniel,

I could swear I've used it before. I'll look - perhaps I was influenced by recent discussions. At any rate - I do desire consistency and will change all occurences to read one way.

Thanks for pointing this out!

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

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Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

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