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Very Interesting!

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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Very Interesting!

Feb-05-2002 at 11:45 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Akhay,

I'm working on Acts 2 now - and I love this one. In verse 2, the Aramaic reads:

"There was all of a sudden a sound from heaven like a Fzyz9 0xwr (Rukha Azezta) - and the entire house in which they were sitting was filled with it."

This phrase - Rukha Azezta, seems to have been translated into Greek as "powerful wind."

As you know - Rukha in Aramaic and Hebrew can mean either "spirit" or "wind."

What's crucial here is the translation of the word Fzyz9 - which comes from a root that means many different things - two of which are "mighty" and "groaning." The main meaning of the root is "groaning" - but it can mean "powerful."

Rather than "powerful wind" as the Greek translator read this phrase - it should be read as "groaning spirit."

The sound they heard - which began to fill the room, had nothing to do with a wind - but with the Holy Spirit teaching them to speak in tongues (verse 4.) This is the errie sound - "like groaning" - they heard which frightened them (verse 12.)

In case you're wondering - yes, this very same terminology is used elsewhere in the New Testament - particularly in Yukhanan 11:33 - where Yukhanan tells us that:

"(Eshoa) groaned (same root - 'az') in his spirit (rukheh) and his soul was moved"!

Akhi Iakov - correct me if I'm wrong about the Greek here - can it mean anything other than "mighty wind?" I know about "pneuma" - but what about the "mighty" part?

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Keith
 
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1. Acts 2

Feb-06-2002 at 04:47 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Paul,

As you may know I am a Pentecostal Christian. I have studied the Book of Acts in depth in order to assure myself that that which I practice and believe lines up with the word of God. Those points you make are outstanding and truly shed light on this verse of scripture which otherwise probably would be lost.

Would you mind giving me a literal translation on Acts 19:2? I think the Aramaic is unambiguous concering this verse whereas in the Greek there is a bit of abiguity.

In Christ,
Keith

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2. RE: Acts 2

Feb-06-2002 at 09:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Shlama Akhi Keith,

The Aramaic of Acts 19:2 reads as follows:

J0d (d'in) - "did"

Jwtlbq (qabilton) - "you receive/accept"

04dwqd 0xwr (Rukha d'Qudsha) - "the Holy Spirit"

Jwtnmyhd Nm (min d'hay-min-ton) - "since you believed ?"

I've color-coded the d Nm ( min d') because I think that's what you may be referring to and the explanation is kinda weird.

"Min" is a Particle that literally means "from."

The Proclitic "d" in this case means "that."

The combination of the two idiomatically means the same thing as "since" does in English. Like "from that (time)" - except the "(time)" is not explicitly verbalized in Aramaic - it's understood idiomatically.

I'm not sure about the Greek here - maybe Akhi Iakov can clarify that better since he is my superior in that topic.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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4. Romans 8:26

Feb-08-2002 at 09:25 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

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Shlama Akhi Keith,

Doesn't this reading in Acts 2:2 fit in nicely with Romans 8:26 ?

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Iakov
 
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3. RE: Very Interesting!

Feb-06-2002 at 09:51 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Akhi Paul,

>Akhi Iakov - correct me if
>I'm wrong about the Greek
>here - can it mean
>anything other than "mighty wind?"
> I know about "pneuma"
>- but what about the
>"mighty" part?
>
Actually 'pneuma' does not appear here. The word used (pnoe) more specifically means wind, breeze, or breath, air.
'Mighty'(bia) is an adequate translation for a word that usually is taken to mean violence, force, forcefull, (used to refer to an angry mob).
A literal Gr. translation of the verse would be

'And came suddenly from heaven a noise as a driving violent wind and filled the whole house where they were sitting'

But 'pnoes biaias' could never mean ,'groaning spirit'. Not even 'violent spirit'. 'Violent breath' - I guess that's why there is Listerine.

0ml4
bwq9y

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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