Ivan Pavlovich
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Oct-07-2000 at 06:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
Shlama everybody! I think that Targum "Onkelos" is very important for the study of the Peshitta.Studying this targum one can deepen the knowledge of the language of the Aramaic Peshitta represented by this site. If anybody likes to have the text go to: https://breslov.com/bible/ Here what I got from Encyclopedia Brittanica: " The earliest Targums date from the time after the Babylonian Exile when Aramaic had superseded Hebrew as the spoken language of the Jews in Palestine. It is impossible to givemore than a rough estimate as to the period in which Hebrew was displaced by Aramaic as a spoken language. It is certain, however, that Aramaic was firmly established in Palestine by the1st century AD, although Hebrew still remained the learned and sacred language. Thus theTargums were designed to meet the needs of unlearned Jews to whom the Hebrew of the Old Testament was unintelligible.The status and influence of the Targums became assured after the Second Temple wasdestroyed in AD 70, when synagogues replaced the Temple as houses of worship. For it was in the synagogue that the practice of reading from the Old Testament became widely observed,along with the custom of providing these readings with a translation into Aramaic. WhenScripture was read aloud in the synagogue, it was translated aloud by a meturgeman, or professional interpreter (hence the name Targum), for the benefit of the congregation. Thetranslator tried to reproduce the original text as closely as possible, but since his object was togive an intelligible rendering of the biblical text, the Targums eventually took on the characterof paraphrase and commentary, leaving literal translation behind. To prevent misconceptions, a meturgeman expanded and explained what was obscure, adjusted the incidents of the past tothe ideas of later times, emphasized the moral lessons to be learned from the biblical narratives, and adapted the rules and regulations of the Scriptures to the conditions and requirements of the current age. Though written Targums gradually came into being, it was the living tradition of oral translationand exposition that was recognized as authoritative throughout the Talmudic period of the earlycenturies of the Christian Era. The official recognition of a written Targum, and therefore thefinal fixing of its text, belongs to the post-Talmudic period of the 5th century AD. The bestknown, most literal, and possibly the earliest Targum is the Targum of Onkelos on thePentateuch, which appeared in its final revision in the 3rd century AD. Other Targums include the Targum of Pseudo-Jonathan, the Samaritan Targum, and the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziel." 1999-2000 Britannica.com Inc. This is my first acquaintance with the targum. Probably Jesus and apostles used this targum? Can somebody share his(her) knowledge about the date it was written and its influence. Are there available manuscripts of this targum and their names? Thank you. Ivan Pavlovih.
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Oct-08-2000 at 00:15 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #0
Shlama Akhi Ivan, I agree with you. We have to study Targum Onkelos very thoroughly to understand the Peshitta better. Akhi Shmuel is sending a copy to me (thanks Akhi Shmuel), and I can't wait to read it. From what I understand, it is nearly 100% the same as the dialect of the Peshitta. I love this website you have pointed us to. I will include it in my "Links" section. It is a treasure-trove of Semitic information. I especially like the music. From what I understand, this Targum is very old, a fact indicated by the connection with Rab Eliezer and Rab Josua, and belongs probably to the second, or it may be to the first century of our era. It arose, as the idiom shows, in Judea, but it received official recognition first from the Babylonian Rabbis, and is therefore called by them "our Targum". Rab Natronay in speaking of this says, that it is not permitted to replace it in the services of the synagogue by any other translation of the Torah. The high reputation of this authorized translation is shown by the fact that it has a Masorah of its own. What I will find most fascinating about it is that it deals with the speach of both Judea and Babylon, which are exactly the two places from which the Peshitta manuscripts of the NT circulated (as well as Samaria, Galilee and Edessa). If the dialect is indeed nearly identical to the Peshitta dialect, then we have more proof of the Judean/Galilean origin of the Peshitta manuscripts.....as well as the dialect of Maran Eshoa. Shlama w'Burkate, Paul >Shlama everybody! > >I think that Targum "Onkelos" is >very important for the study >of the Peshitta.Studying this targum >one can deepen the knowledge >of the language of the >Aramaic Peshitta represented by this >site. >If anybody likes to have the >text go to: >https://breslov.com/bible/ >Here what I got from Encyclopedia >Brittanica: >" The earliest Targums date from >the time after the Babylonian >Exile when Aramaic had superseded >Hebrew as the spoken language >of the Jews in Palestine. >It is impossible to givemore >than a rough estimate as >to the period in which >Hebrew was displaced by Aramaic >as a spoken language. It >is certain, however, that Aramaic >was firmly established in Palestine >by the1st century AD, although >Hebrew still remained the learned >and sacred language. Thus theTargums >were designed to meet the >needs of unlearned Jews to >whom the Hebrew of the >Old Testament was unintelligible.The status >and influence of the Targums >became assured after the Second >Temple wasdestroyed in AD 70, >when synagogues replaced the Temple >as houses of worship. For >it was in > the synagogue that the practice >of reading from the Old >Testament became widely observed,along with >the custom of providing these >readings with a translation into >Aramaic. WhenScripture was read aloud >in the synagogue, it was >translated aloud by a meturgeman, >or professional interpreter (hence the >name Targum), for the benefit >of the congregation. Thetranslator tried >to reproduce the original text >as closely as possible, but >since his object was togive >an intelligible rendering of the >biblical text, the Targums eventually >took on the characterof paraphrase >and commentary, leaving literal translation >behind. To prevent misconceptions, a >meturgeman expanded and explained what >was obscur
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deand
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Oct-09-2000 at 08:58 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #0
I have Targum Onkelos in print as part of the "Chumash" (first five books of moses) Additionally, Targum Yonatan is available in print as part of the Prophets. Both are printed in an inside column margin in standard Square script. I read that Targum Onkelos is *not* from the first century and the language is an artificial one composed years later. I dont know how to confirm or deny this. I'm sure once Akhi Paul gets his hands on it, he'll be able to tell rather easily. I'd be happy to scan a few pages of Targum Yonatan's Isaiah for your review!
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Ivan Pavlovich
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Oct-10-2000 at 02:39 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #2
Shlama Deand, Of course, good idea to see example of Your scanned targum, brother. Tell us about this targum. I was researching about Targum Onkelos and found that there is no unanimous knowledge about the date on this targum. Some encyclopedias tell that it was written in the 2nd century or 1st A.D., others in the 3rd A.D. Some organizations on the Internet claim that it was written long before Christ, one tell about 8th century B.C or a little bit later. You say that its language is artificial, what do you mean? Is it made of textual research or there is one common text? I am not sure about fidelity of this text. I read in one encyclopedia (probably Columbia) and it states that COE Peshitta text since 4th century until now is marked by high fidelity. Tell us about other targums also. They are very precious in understanding the COE Peshitta language represented here by our dear brother Paul. Everybody is very welcome share his(her) knowledge. Thank you. Ivan.
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Akhi Shmuel
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Oct-10-2000 at 05:55 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #3
To All Concerned: The Targums are three or four in Rabinc Judaism. They are Targum Onkelous ,who by a Jewish ledgen was a convert to Judaism in the second century circa 135A.D. He was said to be a newphew of Emperor Hadrian. The truth may be that it is attributed to Onkelos called Aquila in Roman Latin, but it was writen in Babyloan latter inthe fith or sixst century A.D. Even so it may have preserved a lot of oral traditions of oral targums writen centuries latter. Then the Torah has two additional Targums that of Pseudo Yohathan and the Yerushalmi, a mixture of the other two targums. Then the Targum Yohanthan on the Prophets a second or third century version. The Ketubim or writings was writen latter and excludes Daniel, Ezra, and Nemiah.Esther has two Targums the second is caled Targum Sheni or the Second Targum. In additon the Samartians have a Paleo-Hebrew script Aramaic Targum of the Torah according to their traditons.No manscript has been found before the twelveth century A.D. But that does not mean that they do not represent ancient versions before the time of Christ. The Greek Septuagiant also has remains of three Targums. They are Aquila,Symchus,and the Theodotion, writen around the second century A.D. as a protest against the Septuagiant among the Anti-Messainic Rabbinic Jews.I thought you might all want to know. Shlma Raba Shmuel-Elizer Bara Yaqob Khokheina Mei Kholeth Isroel
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deand
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Oct-14-2000 at 10:19 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #3
Shlama Ivan, What I meant by "Artificial" is that (I dont know if its true, I'm only expressing what I read) the Aramaic of "Onkelos" was never a spoken or written language, rather it was pieced together by scribes much later using Aramiac vocabulary and grammer of different eras and dialects. I would be very interested to know if this is true or not. Hopefully, akhi Paul will have an opportunity to review some passages of both Onkelos and Jonathan to shed some light on this issue. On Monday the 16th I will upload some scanned passages of both. Dean Dana
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Oct-14-2000 at 11:35 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #5
Shlama Akhi Dean, I agree with all of you in that we must study this subject a little more. I am fascinated by this Targum, but I must admit I am not very familiar with it at all. I have it here on my desk right now (thanks again Akhi Shmuel!), but I simply have not had the time yet to delve too deeply into it. From what I have seen so far, I notice a very close affinity to the dialect of the Peshitta. Perhaps even 99% or so the same. I always try to remind people too, that there is about 4000 years (or perhaps even longer) of Aramaic history (even if all of it has not survived in a textual witness). Also, this language has literally had HUNDREDS of dialects over this long period of time....but all of which are highly intelligible among each other. Even in Maran Eshoa's time, there were perhaps dozens of dialects just in Galilee alone. In Edessa, there were many dialects. But there was always a common thread to all of them, like English today. No matter which country it is spoken in, yet all other English-speaking countries can understand it (especially in written form). Let's study Onkelos and Yonathan verse-by-verse, while paying particular attention to how the same phrases would be said in Peshitta Aramaic. Shlama w'Burkate, Paul >Shlama Ivan, > >What I meant by "Artificial" is >that (I dont know if >its true, I'm only expressing >what I read) the Aramaic >of "Onkelos" was never a >spoken or written language, rather >it was pieced together by >scribes much later using Aramiac >vocabulary and grammer of different >eras and dialects. > >I would be very interested to >know if this is true >or not. Hopefully, akhi >Paul will have an opportunity >to review some passages of >both Onkelos and Jonathan to >shed some light on this >issue. On Monday the 16th >I will upload some scanned >passages of both. > >Dean Dana
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Akhi Shmuel
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Oct-15-2000 at 08:23 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #6
Dear Akhi Paul: The Targums meaning translations are different from one another. The Targum of Onkelous (Aquila) is really a late fifth century edited work, probabbly going back a few hundred years earlier through oral traditions to the time of 90A.D., my date of 135A.D. was incorect. The Targum of Yohanthan is not really writen by him but is a pseudonym writen in the third or fourth centuries A.D. There is also a combination of these two texts that make up on the Khumusha Targum Yerushalmi(Jerusalem Targum). The Jews had two dialects one was Babylonian the most popular and an earlier Jerusalem dialect that the Jerusalem Talmud was writen in around 330A.D. The main difference I see is that in the Jerusalem dialect words often end with Hei or Nun, in the Babylonian dialect most words end in Alep or Nun. The two dialcts are very simmilar. The Samartians have there one Targum on the Khumusha in Paleo-Hebrew Samartian font,but only believe the first five books of the Old Testament that is the Torah alone.They are called in Hebrew Beinei Shmoron, that is Sons of the Watch or the true guardians of the Torah according to themselves. The Peshitta is believed to be started as early as 55A.D., when King Izatates converted to Judaism in Abiane of Syria I believe. It is a gradual translation of the Hebrew -Chalodian Aramaic scripture with latter additions including the Apocrapha from the Septuagiant and Sira from the original lost Hebrew text preserved in part from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Also Tobit is translated fromthe original Aramaic text not the Greek Septuagiant.Later the original New Testament was added to the Peshitta as one Bible among all Middle and Near Eastern Christians whose language was Ashuri Aramaic, not syriac a Greeek term for the nation of Aram or Syria in Greek.This word Syriac is artifical and refers to a nation not a language, we should keep that in mind. Shlama Rabba Shmuel-Elizer
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Akhi Shmuel
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Oct-15-2000 at 08:21 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #7
Akhi Paul: Here is a transliteration of the prophet Yonah from the Aramaic Targum to read. Wa hawah pithgam n'vuah min qadam MarYah im Yonah bar Amitai l'meimar. Qumezeil L'Ninweh qarta rabtha uithnabei alah ari sliqath biyshata-hon qadmai. Uqam Yonah lameraq l'yama min qadam dithnabei bishma daYah unkhath l'yapu u-ashkhakh ilpa dazala l'yama wihab agra unkhath bar l'meizal amhon rav al yama wahawah nakhoshul rav b'yama wilpa ba-aya litabra. Udkhilu sapnaya uvu g'var min d'khalteih wakhazo arei leith b'hon srokh urmo yath manaya divilpa l'yama laqala minhon U Yonah n'kheith larith shida dilpa ushkhiv udmukh. Shlama Rabbah,Shmuel-Elizer
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Oct-15-2000 at 09:34 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #8
Shlama Akhi Shmuel, This is purely the dialect of the Peshitta. If you hadn't told me it was from a Targum, I would not have known. It is 100% the same, and I understood every word (even in the Roman characters!) "Wa hawah" - And came/happened "Pithgam" - the command/instruction "n'vuah" - 'prophetly' "min qadam" - 'from' "MarYah" - the LORD "Am" - to "Yonah bar Amitai" - Jonah the son of Matti/Matthew "l'meimar" - saying "Qum" - arise "Ezeil" - go to "l'Ninweh" - to Nineveh "Qarta" - the walled fortress/city "Rabtha" - great "w'ithnabei" - and prophesy "alah" - against her ....and so forth. Shlama w'Burkate, Paul >Wa hawah pithgam n'vuah min qadam >MarYah im Yonah bar Amitai >l'meimar. Qumezeil L'Ninweh qarta rabtha >uithnabei alah ari sliqath biyshata-hon >qadmai. Uqam Yonah lameraq l'yama >min qadam dithnabei bishma daYah >unkhath l'yapu u-ashkhakh ilpa dazala >l'yama wihab agra unkhath bar >l'meizal amhon rav al yama >wahawah nakhoshul rav b'yama wilpa >ba-aya litabra. Udkhilu sapnaya uvu >g'var min d'khalteih wakhazo arei >leith b'hon srokh urmo yath >manaya divilpa l'yama laqala minhon >U Yonah n'kheith larith shida >dilpa ushkhiv udmukh. >Shlama Rabbah,Shmuel-Elizer
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