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christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

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Albert Nassermoderator

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christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Aug-28-2000 at 02:02 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-29-2001 at 09:27 AM (UTC3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Dear Assyrians

For a long time something attracted me in our christian faith, which it seems doesn't work to support Assyrianism.

Is it a coincedence that Islam religion works for Arab nation, while christianity works only against Assyrianism!!

For how long we should just watch christianity apart our nation, discounting our national values from our lives, while Islam religion gathering Arabs nationally!! Is it our christian faith meant to destroy our national values? Our churches made it, and became TOOLS to shutdown Assyrianism!!

There is something wrong; Assyrians do not realize that something in christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism.

We should oriented our believe in christianity this way:"NO CHRISTIANITY WITHOUT ASSYRIANISM" to prevent our people considering christianity more important than Assyrianism.

We born as Assyrians, we had known GOD before christianity, historically we had taught this world spiritually about GOD and the creation before thousands years.

Yes, all spiritual acts in Assyrianism had been quoted to christianity!! It's an act of ignorance if we ignore the true God in Assyrianism and to praise the same God in christianity!!!!Is there any logical explanation to that?? Unless it's a trial to drag the truth from Assyrianism and had spread under different topic; (christianity)!!

He is the same GOD, we had known him before any other creature on this Earth. What changed in this GOD after we converted to christianity!

christianity is the same conception of Assyrianism, or it's the Assyrianism itself but with those little changes which designed to work against Assyrianism.

I TRUST IN GOD AS AN ASSYRIAN, I BELIEVE IN GOD AS I KNOW HIM FOR THOUSANDS YEARS AND THAT IS MY POWER IN MY FAITH. REMEMBER ALWAYS ASSYRIANISM IS ALSO BELIEVING IN GOD. IT IS NOT ONLY NATIONAL IDENTITY BUT IT'S BOTH.

I just want to emphasize that we had our religion; it was in our Assyrianism, that's how GOD called us"...and Assyria the work of my hands" Ishaia 19:25.

GOD knows us as his worshippers and as Assyrian followers to him, that's how our name came from his name ( God Ashur/Ashuraya (Aha Shuraya/A-Shuraya/Ashuraya ) which means "The begining", God is the begining,the begining of creation!!This concept was quoted to christianity in the bible. Read John 1:1 " In the begining was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God.".

He THE MIGHTY GOD did not send Jesus to lecture his worshippers. Jesus came to destroy paganism of other nations, that's why Jesus said " The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgement with this generation, and shall condemn it..." Matthew 12:41. So, according to what Jesus said we easily could conclude that ancient Assyrians were not pagans.

Please read carefully and understand that ancient Assyrians hadn't changed their faith in GOD due to Jesus appearance!! Such holy appearance should be considered as a continuity to what ancient Assyrians had believed in.

We should analyse the mechanism of above details. How ancient Assyrians believed in Jesus appearance? Was there any sign previously mentioned in their religious ideology refering to such appearance??

We may propose that ancient Assyrians from their own religious heritage had the knowledge of the Star of East as a sign of Jesus's birth, and that was mentioned in the Bible.

Read Matthew 2:1-2" Now when Jesus was born in Beth-le-hem of Ju-dae-a in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem. Saying, where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him".

How did those wise men had known about such sign, as they were from East? Who else know about prophets in the East, the persians were pagans worshipping Fire!! And Assyrians were worshipping God.

That's how spiritual acts of Assyrianism were quoted in a different way in the bible.

The point is for some "unknown?" reasons Assyrianism had been changed to christianity and it was left to The Time to occupy the place of Assyrianism.

Why then Assyrians can't accept Islam?? It fullfill the same purpose of calling for GOD? Because nothing about Mohammad mentioned in our ancient religious heritage, but Jesus was known for ancient Assyrians.


Unfortunately, the killing point that had apart our nation is the christianity title.
Assyrianism was sole method, did not encourage our people for multi-methods in their faith to GOD. If that was continued the future of the Assyrian nation wont be the same as today.

Albert Nasser

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vabra
 
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1. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Apr-19-2001 at 08:22 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
My friend,
Just because you are Assyrian does not qualify you to go to heaven. Whether you are Assyrian, Moslem, Australian, American and so on, you need Jesus as your salvation. Assyrians did not know the true God, until the prophet Jonah came and preached to them. In Matthew 12:41 Jesus says these words,....., because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. Here Jesus is talking about Himself.

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2. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Apr-21-2001 at 11:44 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-2001 AT 10:02 PM (CT)


Vabra
I'm posting to you the same reply I have wrote to David7 which I think both of you are sharing the same ideas about christianity.

I have no confusions in my ideas.You might be for the first time reading that Assyrians had known mighty God before christianity exists.and also not after Jonah's preaching!! So you could'nt accept such idea for only one reason which is your strong believes in christianity.

you, yourself believe that Assyrians they (repented?) at the preaching of Jonah!! Don't you think that Assyrians (repented?)for the mighty God and not for idol gods??!! wasn't Jonah preaching for the name of mighty God?? That story was documented as been happened at 850 B.C !!!!!! Before christianity existence.
Yes, Assyrians had known mighty God before Jesus, and take these extra evidences:

1- if you believe in christianity then you believe in Adam & Eve story. Do you know that this story was documented by Ancient Assyrians for thousands of years before christianity and became part of the holy bible. That story was actually part of the ancient religion of the ancient Assyrians.Important discoveries regarding this subject were made by the late Fred Tamimi the Assyrian Assyriologist in 70's of last millennium.

Assyrians had taught ancient nations like china civilization and Maya civilization(india)about Adam & Eve story and that was discovered in their archeological antiquities.

2- "Ba'aota Ninwayeh" that fast proclaimed for mighty God not for idols!!That proved Assyrians had known mighty God before christianity.

3- read Ishaia 19:25 wherethere God blessing Assyrians saying "Blessed Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands..." We should realize that God blesses goes only to those whom they beleived in him, but not to those who worships idols??!! That was meant that Assyrians had known God before christianity too.

4- read exodus 27:2(the old testament)where God advise Moses to add 4 horns on four corners of the temple.." And thou shall make the horns of it upon the four corners...",
Do you know that the palace of the Assyrian king Ashur-Banipal had horns upon his four corners too!!(see Babylon, for Joan Otis 1987).

So, if putting horns on buildings was an holy featur inspired by God,don't you think that Ancient Assyrians before Moses for thousands years had known that of God inspiration!!!?? and that was again had took place before christianity for a very long time!!

I can mention to you more and more,but I'll stop at those above 4 historical/biblical mentioned facts.

Vabra:
God blessing you as an Assyrian no more no less and you will be identified in heaven as an Assyrian!! God knows you and he blesses you as he blessed your forefathers whom their name as Assyrians was mentioned in the holy bible more than 150 times!!!! Being God believers as we are the first nation on this Earth recognised by God for thousands of years and before christianity, actually this is the power that we have in our faith.

Today we believe in God through christianity, but yesterday (thousands years ago)we believed in God through Assyrianism, nothing changed, he is the same God,we are the same people, but one thing changed since we became christians in faith,we lost our national faith and our land!!...Think about it, and discover why we have different churches fighting over what we had known without those churches!! Our faith was Assyrianism and had been changed to christianity title with some modifications that deeply injured our national faith and made us to forget our nation and our land and trying to build a country for us there above in the sky!!!!!!!!


God bless you

Albert Nasser

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5. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

May-14-2001 at 11:59 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 

>Today we believe in God through
>christianity, but yesterday (thousands years
>ago)we believed in God through
>Assyrianism, nothing changed, he is
>the same God,we are the
>same people, but one thing
>changed since we became christians
>in faith,we lost our national
>faith and our land!!

Yes, albert,something did change, we earned LIFE. We are no longer condemned to die because of our sins. This is how you know that, because you believe in Christ you will see the Kingdom of God. Christ gave his word to all nations, and now it is so beautiful to see that all people can receive the word of God.
Christianity is not just 'another' religion, it is the apex, the capstone of God's relationship with man. It doesn't get much better with that.

And,no offense Albert, but where are you getting these notions of Assyrianism?? Is there such thing as Koreanism? Assyrian is a nationality and not an '-ism' because there is no regimented practice of Assyrian. It is just a culture!! It is just a heritage, a geopolitical marker for us. It is NOT related to our spiritual being. How are we any different from Hittites, Cassites, Jews, Armenians, Sumerians...these are all just little tribes and UNIMPORTANT when it comes to the fundamnetal question of God's relationship with man.
You claim that the Assyrians repented in Jonah's time; that is true, but at this point God's plan was not yet manifested; the Messiah did not come yet. In the Old Testament God forgave people all the time but they still messed up, over and over again. When Christ was crucified and resurrected, forgiveness was fixed forever because God decided that man would live if he believed in Him, despite all the flaws and sins that we have.
Through one man sin entered the world, and through Christ that very sin was effaced, forever! That is breathtaking, humbling, soaring, uplifting, regenerating, eternal news ! Read the gospels, my Friend! THe gospels about Christ is talking about that SINGULAR MOMENT IN HISTORY WHERE THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT CHANGED FOREVER.

Please, please review your theological understanding of Christ before you invoke him in your discussion of Assyrianism!
I say this lovingly, and also because i'm scared that people believe this to be true....its sad to know that the Good News of Christ is being downplayed because we are a fleeting nation.

Julia Sorisho

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Albert Nassermoderator

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6. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

May-14-2001 at 02:56 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 

which life we earned??????? are you satisfied with your life being stateless and humiliated, no rights, nothing atall!!!


I have no problems with being christian!! actually I'm more christian than others when matters linked to believe in God no more no less!!

You are misleading yourself!! and that is the scary thing that our people had been dragged to when arguing about nationalism and religion!!First of all I'm not preaching against Jesus christ as a religion and as an act of God...I'm against any Ashurian whether he is a person/church/religious organization double cross Ashurian people by using christian faith as a TOOL TO SHUTDOWN ASSYRIANISM!!!

And yes, we do have Assyrianism as it was our first ideology that ancient Ashurians had managed their life accordingly.

I can see that you are using double standards to evaluate same religious facts that been existed in Assyrianism and christianity!!
Why you deny facts and evidences when the matter comes to show ancient Ashurians were the first who had known and worshiped the true mighty God, as I mentioned the fact of Adam and Eve story as an important part of christianity was quoted from ancient Ashurian religion.
You couldn't consider Adam&Eve story as an advanced knowledege of knowing God based on ancient Ashurian religion. But infact you consider the same story as a sign of knowing the mighty God because it is mentioned in christianity..You did not say it directly, but this is how you stated your argument when you denied Assyrianism!!

I agree with you there wasn't in our recent life something called Assyrianism, but that was due to our ignorance..Infact there was Assyrianism in our history and to figure out such thing we should not only read our history to catch blindly any thing mentioned about our ancestors.
We have to read our history with very open mind using our intelligence to discover and link facts to find the hidden truth.
In all books no one planely mentioned Assyrianism as an ideology..That is something we have to discover as it represented the daily life of our ancestors.
Such huge history of mighty nation wouldn't be running garbled, no top, no base, no basics to be followed!! Ashurians were the first who set-up the structure of the state system which is up-to-date followed by all nations of today.
So do you immagine that such very civilized act could be achieved by savages??!!This goes also to their religion as the very civilized religion that had known the mighty God.
That's wont be achieved unless there had been an existed ideology,an existed method of life that they had managed their obligations and rights accordingly to finalize their daily life transactions.. And that's what I named it Assyrian ideology which refered to "Assyrianism" in our recent history as no one did that before!!
You should be proud of your original religion which is Assyrianism. You should be proud of your national ideology which is Assyrianism. That's how the Assyrianism is a complete ideology for our life transactions nationally, politically and religiously.
I who should say: Please, please review your theological understanding of Assyrianism before you invoke it in your discussion of christianity!

I say this lovingly, its sad to know that the Good history of Assyrianism is being downplayed because we are christians.

albert Nasser


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7. SORRY, NO SUCH THING AS ASSYRIANISM

May-16-2001 at 09:28 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #6
 
My friend,
1) What are your credentials, and where have you been educated?
2) What authors have defended this notion of Assyrianism?

3) <<<<There is no such thing as Assyrianism>>>
<<<There is such thing as an Assyrian Culture>>

Definition of Culture:
These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture;
Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.

The Assyrian culture is one of many cultures in the world. The peoples below have cultures:

Mayans
Hittites
Hutu
Tutsi
Chaldeans
Magyars
Saxons
Cretians
Jews
Bulgars

All these people have 1) a certain geopolitical orientation 2) a certain tradition 3) a certain language/dialect 4) a certain belief system 5) a certain cannon of law 6) a certain musical and artistic heritage 7) a certain way to eat at the dinner table 8) a certain view of life after death 9) a certain view on justice, morality, statehood, equality, freedom 10) a certain list of significant heroes 11) a history of oppression and advancement 12) a certain set of social laws.

What is so special about culture that you have wasted time and space on Atour.com? What is this nonsense about hidden information in textbooks? What ideology? Do you even know what ideology means? Assyrians had characteristics, not an empirical belief system that signified its existence. We are one of many shifting peoples coming and going, coming from the earth and returning to it. Christ alone (not Buddha, Mohammed, Ba'hai, etc) lifts us from our temporal bodies and gives us spiritual life, that unites all those people listed into spiritual brotherhood and sisterhood. No singular ideology, -ism or practice comes close to the singular truth of Jesus Christ dying for the sins of the world. Absolutely nothing.
Julia SOrisho


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Albert Nassermoderator

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9. RE: SORRY, THERE IS SUCH THING AS ASSYRIANISM

May-17-2001 at 10:12 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #7
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-17-2001 at 11:33 PM (CT)

It's not so easy, to those who are dealing with the Assyrian cause to set their calculations based on a superficial glance to what is available on the ground. A deep and longsighted view to our history to understand the cause through the Assyrian National Ideology may only observes the looseness that leads to an endless tunnel.

The Assyrian National Ideology

--------------------------------

It means the absolute believing in Ashurism.
Ashurism is the faith in the Ashurian national ideology that had approved our real national values for thousands years as a successful theory for our daily life transactions.That's how Ashurism as an approved theory for life becomes a fact because it was approved since Ashurians were masters of this Earth before thousands years and because we the recent Ashurians did not followed the same concept of that theory we got wrong results and that's how we lost everything!!


The national faith in our case is on top of our priorities, and through the faith, our priorities organically are linked to form our national values.

The national faith should direct Assyrians to beleive in their nation as one people, one name.

Solelly,through that understanding we could
librate and protect ourselves of being victims to other political ideologies. Assyrianism gives us the power to understand ourselves to set our clear direct national-political targets.

Unfortunately, Assyrians never had a written Assyrian National Ideology to be accepted as their national theory. What's available is political ideas infected by other ideologies.

Our National ideology should be written based on clear national targets represent the will of our nation, such will keeps our nation never stop struggling and challenging, as long as the nation is breathing.

Assyrians due to several reasons became tools to serve others, and through that they unfortunately contributed their total efforts to serve other ideologies which used them against their nation or lead them atleast to ignore their nation.

Is that because our struggling resulted to nothing? Is that because we grown up in families they never declare their Assyrianity due to what their "church" taught them? Or because no guidlines available to set an Assyrian national education to direct our people to know their national identity and to fight for!! Or the combination of all above reasons also applied!

The National Ideology rarely considered wrong. If the national targets were not properly accomplished , that's mean the political plan was wrong.

It's so sad to know that many Assyrian sects
insist to show themselves as a religious groups more than being related to one nation, which gave wrong idea about our true national-political issues.
Very few exceptions have taken place in our history and since their time never happened again, and it is getting worst!!

We the Assyrians in need and must set our faith only towards Assyrianism, and When we accomplish such step, keeping the faith, nothing shall prevent Assyrians from retrieving their political rights. Unfortunately, we can't centeralize our ideas to form one Assyrian leadership, or atleast to find one unified front to gather our efforts against our enemies.I hope one day our people shall respect their nation and consider it as a national responsibility.

After converting to christianity,our first priority became christian faith,that's why we defend our churches more than defending our Assyrianism and our nation. unfortunately the christian faith apart our n/a/t/i/o/n/ and that is very noticeable by having different churches misleading our people psychologically to concentrate on church Rites more than their nation, that's how our churches and religion became as tools to shutdown Assyrianism!! And due to faith in God is an ancient holy entity in our life, our people use to accept any word comes from our "priests" and that's related to the type of our historical leadership which was in shape of "priest".

Some "anti-Assyrianism" and "anti-christianity" took the chance against the church by misleading the people, coloring the church to appear in shape of "enemy" such blame against the church created by those whom are exposed to communist ideology whom never cared about Assyrianism and religion as an important factors in our life.

We the Assyrians are the first people on this earth who believed in GOD and had spread his name in the ancient world. Such belief is in our blood, we can't ignore it, it is part of our Assyrian identity, Assyrianism also it means in GOD we trust and believe, and that was before christianity for thousands years.

Either due to ignorance or for hidden purposes to serve other political ideologies which contradict with our national ideology, those "anti-Assyrianism" gave wrong idea about the national act, they have punched the nationalism to be wrongfully related to our churches,I trust that not all churches serves only word of GOD!! but such comparison confused our people to accept either Assyrianism or "religious rites"!! and because mistake always produces mistake, our people have chosen their "religious rites" under church title which now for "some" of them accumulate wrong understanding to recognize themselves as a new nation!!!. That's considered the big loss in term of national calculations.

The Assyrian National Ideology is such high quality of nationalistic theory needs high qualified nationalistic individuals to lead our people at least to centralize their attraction and beliefs towards Assyrianism rather than attracted to be "religious groups" or serve other political ideologies.


THE POLITICAL GAME OF OTHER IDEOLOGIES

---------------------------------------

We can easily identify the contradictions in other political ideologies who took place to lead Assyrians using the term of national struggle as a cover to serve their benefits which representing their first priority. We understand that interests are the natural language in politics. Based on that, those ideologies oriented their efforts to such goals that serves their political interests, nothing of that Assyrianity they do care about. We are the lucky card to be used now days, once the card is expired, they'll sell us at the first available chance.

Assyrians must direct their attention to identify what is beyond all of these Assyrian political parties to solve their puzzle, and to know why they made the Assyrian cause such complicated while having several parties should resulted a high quality act in national struggle which leads to more pressure against the Iraqi government. What is available are only Assyrian faces but infact they serve the benefits of other political ideologies, and that's why is so clear that all of them declared Assyrianism, but nothing of Assyrianism is gathering them.

The current preparations in the National-Political exercise should ensure an integral solution instantly due to the insupportable situation of the Assyrians. Such situation can not provide assistance to raise integral solution unless Assyrians deal honestly with their Assyrianity as an national responsibility. Such responsibility should be passed through national achievements as a message to our next generations. Such achievements shall never accomplished unless to follow the Assyrian National Ideology standards.

Albert Nasser

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10. No such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-17-2001 at 11:27 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #9
 
There is no such thing as serving two Gods. You either have an absolute faith in God or an absolute faith in Assyrianism. The only reason I say that is because God is eternal and constant, whereas every other thing in the world (due to our limited perceptions) is changing. Matter, time, space, theory, idea, notion, these are all changing based on how we perceive constructs and how that changes when understanding historicity and language. What we know can never be proven. We cannot prove anything.

Our belief in God is a gift from God, it does not come from us. That is why we can believe in Him, not because we decide to go to church and be Christians but because he chooses us and gives us life through the word of God.

Believing in an Assyrian ideology is not empirical, as nothing is empirical. What you are doing is chosing one point of our evolution as a people and you are expanding it to say that this is fundamentally, empirically, irreducibly who we are. But, lets face it, no human is fixed. No human in the world limits themselves with such ideology. A mexican does not say, I'm a mexican, I follow the politics of the PRI, this is who I am till the day I die. These are fanciful notions because people are subject to change with a function of time. You, Albert, may believe these things and guess what, tomorrow you may change your mind. I may change my mind and say "Assyrianism is life" but that is all a product of the fanciful and flippant thinking humans are subject to because of our limited abilities to think.

In invoking the word 'absolute belief' you are digging a grave for yourself. There is no such thing as an absolute belief in anything, pick up a physics textbook and check out how time and space alone can bend. But, like I said, we can have an absolute belief in God only because that belief does not germinate from us but is given to us by God (that's in the bible).

To sum up, you have made many flaws in your arguments:
1. Assyrian national ideology is the absolute believing in Assyrianism
2. Assyrianism is the faith in the assyrian National Ideology that had approved our real national values for thousands of years....
3. The national faith in our case
is on top of our
priorities, and through the faith,
our priorities organically are linked
to form our national values.
4.The national faith should direct Assyrians
to beleive in their nation
as one people, one name.
5. too many others to list.....

You, Albert, are part of an ethnic minority without a country. You want your own country, your own language in that country with your own ethnic title and then you'll be happy. Do you also want to resort to extreme nationalism and warfare, that characterized our glorious ancestors? I mean, they did have a great empire because of their 'Assyrianism'. This meant that countless lives had to be lost because that is part and parcel of nationalism and conquering land and territory. Do you want to revert to these primal practices?

I'm still quite scared about your ideology. Your ideology is similar to a Napoleonic ideology, that is, heavy nationalism and a call to advance our nation before others. Napoleon made France the center of the world and ventured to conquer Europe. The development of nationalism, this deep love for ideologies, bred all kinds of wars in France, Germany, Eastern Europe, and in post-colonialist Africa. Nationalism breeds wars (competition for land and scarce resources) and mass murders. What was the Third Reich about? What was Mussolini about? What was Franco about? What was Tito about? What was Castro about?

All these men decided that land, independence, advancement of peoples or ideologies superceded their belief in God. THey chose to kill and murder to advance the name of their country mercillesly, and only for self-aggradizement.

Your ideology is nationalistic and isolationist, and comes in a headlong crash against the new wave of politics, globalization. This means every person is so interconnected with the other that invoking things like supremacy of one race or the absolute needs of one race can cause the next world war.

You have a dangerous ideology.

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11. RE: No such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-18-2001 at 10:21 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #10
 

Thank you for lecturing me about God!!!
Actually I don't need such lecture, I know exactly what I'm saying.

Your problem is that you prompt to explain the "absolute faith" in the way it serves your purposes!!You should ask first why I gave the absolute meanings to the act of beleiving in Assyrianism??

It has nothing to do with your comparison between God and Assyrianism.
The comparison that should be made is among other Ideologies. You should compaire apples to apples, not apples to oranges!!

I assumed that anyone read such philosophy is qualified enough to understand it and being ready to involve in discussions.

The God you are talking about was known by ancient Assyrians first.
They had spread his name all over the ancient world. And due to your conclusion about knowing God is a gift from God himself, then the logic should state that Assyrians were giffted by God!

So to continue our conclusion based on your conclusion, our Assyrian Ideology was setup to manage the ancient Assyrian religion, therefore beleiving in the Assyrian Ideology is indeed another passage to beleive in God.

As you see I never replaced Assyrianism instead of God!!God is God that's how our ancestors beleived in God and that's how we received the message to continue beleiving in God, because we beleive in our history that made by our ancestors as true worshippers of God.

With a deep study to our history you'll find that ancient Assyrians were God worshippers not idolls.Based on that we should conclude that there was an Ideology that Assyrians managed their lives accordingly.

A nation that spread her winges over the whole known ancient world was certainly a result of a very successful Ideology.

I ask you not to insult the Assyrian history spreading lies about being history of wars!!
I know your idea is planted in your head as an ready-cooked conclusion deliver to you through (TAWRAT)!! Assyrians were Masters to ancient Greeks, they had taught them about all sciences.
Only "Tawrat" showed Assyrians for 2000 years as killers and invadors!! So, no wonder that you are trying to cover yourself in sheep's skin but infact you are a wolf!!

To be continued

albert Nasser

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12. RE: No such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-18-2001 at 03:06 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #11
 
Last edited by j_sorisho on May-18-2001 at 03:09 PM (CT)

....the Assyrian Ideology
is indeed another passage to
beleive in God.

This statement imposes a limit on Christianity.
Christianity is an 'ideology,' if you will, that deals primarily with the spiritual and not temporal body. Therefore, to say that the Assyrian ideology is another passage to believe in God is heresy. HERESY. No where in the bible does it mention that in order to believe in God you have to have a working Assyrian Ideology. Never does Christ mention the importance of nationalism or national-ideology.

What is the purpose of life, Albert?
Is it:
a) to serve Christ with all your heart and ability
b) to have a deep Assyrian ideology that is just as important as Christianity?

Please answer this question in your next post

You are imposing serious limitations on the word of God by ranking Assyrianism as much importance as you do. The only reason why I am spending this much time writing back to you is because you are spreading the notion that a spiritual salvation offered by Christ is corrupting our notions of nationalism. Such a thesis does not even merit discussion because the spiritual life, in Christianity, is much more important than the temporal one.

One more thing, you keep saying that we believed in God and we spread his word throughout the ancient lands. As far as I can tell, there was no real evangelical movement until the Pauline ministries began after Christ's death and ascension. Prior to christ, the ancient peoples left no record of monotheism that did not include the Jewish people. Even Assyrian missionaries began their world evangelical movements AFTER Christ's great commission. This is EVIDENCED by the fact that we have Assyrian CHRISTIAN (not prechristian) communities in India and China, not "all over the world" as you say.

Also, it doesn't matter if we were first or last in receiving GOd's word. It doesn't matter! At all! Because the whole POINT to receiving God's word is that we become CHRISTIANS. The whole point of God's covenant with Abraham was to fulfil the prophecies about Christ, that mankind would benefit from a NEW relationship with Christ.

We are nothing without Christ.
This means an Assyrianism with a pre-Christian belief in God is paralyzed until that belief is COMPLETED with a belief in Christ.
We have everything when we believe in Christ.
This means that if i don't follow the Assyrian ideology I will still see the Kingdom of Heaven and enjoy the spiritual relationship with the GOd of creation.

There is no room for exorbitant Assyrian nationalism in Christianity

.

As long as my fingers can help me type, I enjoy responding to your posts and will continue to do so.
God bless you Albert.

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14. RE: There is such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-18-2001 at 10:38 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #12
 
I'm very accurate in naming things as they should be called.I'm not denying the spiritual side of the Assyrian Ideology as historically I'm sure of it.The fight was and still is between Christianity and Assyrianism since "those" who wrote "the tawrat" quoted most spiritual acts of Assyrianism under new title in their book.

You should realize that Assyrianism as an Ideology serving the spiritual side and other life requirements of Ancient Assyrians was the only armour that kept Assyrians strong and together.
But when Assyrians had lost that armour it was easy to occupy their spiritual lives with the same details but under different topics!!

So, in your case claiming that nothing mentioned about Assyrianism in bible as an spiritual ideology; certainly you will never find anything in bible preaching for Assyrianism, how do you expect that? "They" want to eliminate Assyrianism from it's roots!! Pay attention to what is written about Babylon in the bible:

revelation 17:5 " And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY,BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."....pay attention to the capitalization of the phrase it's printed in the bible like that,WHY????!!!And why such hate used against us in bible?? How do you accept to beleive in someone insists to hate you?? spreading lies about you, deforming your history??

revelation 17:6 "and I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of martyrs of Jesus..."!!!! Which Martyrs of Jesus in Babylon were existed in that time?????!!!!

And who is the most well-known in history that killed saints? I think you already know that!!

That's the stratigy was followed to humiliate Assyrianism in eyes of people, that's the stratigy was followed to stop the efficiency of Assyrianism. Repetition method of spreading same lies for 2000 years was enough to plant a new Ideology!!!!!

Assyrians found it easily to accept christianity due to nothing new was brought to Assyrians in term of their spiritual beleives. Christianity in it's total notion as an ideology is preaching for God no more no less!!So, Assyrians had knew God before christianity,so they agreed on principals which is beleiving in God himself.

You are dragging the name of Jesus christ in our discussion,I warn you that will never help you to escape from the historical facts that I mentioned about God in Assyrianism.

You asked the following questions:
What is the purpose of life, Albert?
Is it:
a) to serve Christ with all your heart and ability
b) to have a deep Assyrian ideology that is just as important as Christianity?

In term of national notion I have an absolute beleive in Assyrianism.

In term of spiritual notion I have an absolute beleive in God.

Assyrians should find their way to set their spiritual notion to access their national values.
simply to say "sky and land". Floating makes you feel belong to no one and to nothing..Assyrians should stand firmly on a ground to look firmly to the sky.. and that ground is a country.

That's how Assyrianism managed spiritual and nationalistic values of our ancestors, therefore they stood firmly on their land, beleiving in their land, dieing for their land.

God was called Ashur but not "yahwa!!" and due to that name which is meant "the begining" Assyrians called "Ashuraya" which is simply understandable in our language Aha-shuraya/A-shuraya/Ashuraya as (shuraya) means "the begining",the God is the begining of the creation.

So, due to that God was the centre point in the spiritual beleives of ancient Assyrians and such fact played an important role in their existence.

I'm proud of being an Assyrian, because my name explains my existence as worshipper of God.

So, in your claims that I'm imposing serious limitations on the word of God by ranking Assyrianism as much importance, is a big lie!!

The only reason why I am spending this much time writing back to you is because your national values really in need to be reviewed.

God bless you too

Albert Nasser

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17. RE: There is such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-21-2001 at 10:23 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #14
 
Last edited by j_sorisho on May-21-2001 at 10:25 AM (CT)

Dear Albert,
(1) My asking for you to list your personal credentials is not an attack on your person; I just want to gage your educational experiences.
(2) My asking for you to list textbooks that supplement or expand your theories also does not attack you as a person.
(3) certainly you will never find anything in
bible preaching for Assyrianism, how do you expect that? "They" want to eliminate Assyrianism from it's roots!!

Unfortunately, albert, this is where our conversation clumsily diverges. if you do not believe that the bible as we have it is the
divine and inspired word of God, then our discussion is basically over. If we have a mutually exclusive definition of the bible, we cannot keep talking unless we come to an understanding regarding the authenticity and nature of the bible.
(4)Christianity in
it's total notion as an ideology is preaching for God no more no
less!!

I would love to hear from what textbooks or what branch of academia you've gotten the above verse. Christ=God=Holy Spirit. Christianity cannot be an ideology, it is God's singular ideology.
We diverge on many points, and it would truly help me as your sister in Christ if you directed me to textbooks where your argument is systemically argued and researched.
Thanks so much, and I'm looking forward to your list of references,
Julia

P.S. If you are ever on AOL instant messenger, please IM me at Helsinki81 so we can have a 'real time' discussion on this topic.

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19. RE: There is such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-21-2001 at 01:57 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #17
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-21-2001 at 01:58 PM (CT)

Dear Julia

keep the conversation publicly, no secrets in this topic, all of us are christians, God worshippers, strong believers in christ.

Don't panic if you are strong believer in Jesus. The whole matter is; that Assyrianism contains topic of God ideology before christianity.Most spiritual acts of Assyrianism forming many concepts of christianity.Are you aware of that?

I'm trying to remind our people that big mistakes were written about our history showing ancient Assyrians as pagans!!
Such lies easily could be demolished by facts written in the bible.

But at the same time many topics in the bible are written in a way that helped to demolish our believes in our ancestors as God worshippers and also made our people totally forgot about their national values!!.

In that case, a very careful understanding should be paid to what are we reading in the bible and the history.

I personally enjoy reading the bible as it's the only spiritual reference contains the truth of Assyrianism that you can use to link other facts in other researchs/books to view the total picture.

In the first 33 chapters of bible I found many questionable paragraphs I shall furnish them publicly.

pay attention!! your comments what so ever are they, you are wellcome, and I am inviting all educated Assyrians to share us in this discussion.

In this exact forum of Atour.com we are setting for the first time "The Entrance to set a new notion about using Assyrianism to serve our national values through christianity".

take care, and God bless you all

Albert Nasser

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20. A Big Giant Circle?

May-21-2001 at 03:09 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #19
 
Dear Albert,
It has been fun discussing this topic with you, yet this has all been one big, giant circle. First, you believe in an ideology called Assyrianism based on facts about pre-Christian Assyrian culture and heritage you've not yet substantiated by a citation of textbooks or other academic sources that back up your arguments.

Second, you believe in the Bible but you also believe that part of it was written in such a way as to cast the Assyrians as warlike savages. You will have difficulty discussing the bible if you have the mixed position that the bible is part truth and part lie.

Third, you believe Christ is one more way God showed the world to turn from pagan beliefs. If this is true, then why, as a pre-Christian god fearing Assyrianist, would you believe in Christ?

Fourth, you have not commented yet on how Jews who worship 'the God of the old testament' fit into your God fearing-nationalistic model of Assyrianism.

Fifth, I am not positing that we have a 'secret' discussion, have no fear Albert! I wanted to use less space on Atour.com's server, but if you insist this I will still use this forum to show how your Assyrianist theory is in need of revision.

Sixth, and I know I'm asking a lot from you, please provide the following information which is neither an attack or a derision on your person:
1) What is your educational background
2)What are some textbooks that backup your theory
3) Provide answers for the following questions:

What is the bible?
Is the bible as we have it (NKJV, NIV) the infallible word of God?
Is Jesus Christ perfect? Can we worship God without Jesus? (<<--Please answer that one, that is key to our discussion).
How does a person subscribing to Assyrianism differ from a person who subscribes to another Nationalist ideology? What happens if everyone endorses a nationalist ideology? How do you reconcile this with the power of globalization and the diminishing role of the state?
Because i feel that you need to defend this theory of yours, I asked that you would email or IM your responses because you are shirking a lot of key questions. However, if you are most comfortable with this discussion format, then fine, but please answer these questions when you can.
Until next time,
Julia

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21. RE: A Big Giant Circle?

May-21-2001 at 03:48 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #20
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-21-2001 at 06:50 PM (CT)

You stated:
"Third, you believe Christ is one more way God showed the world to turn from pagan beliefs. If this is true, then why, as a pre-Christian god fearing Assyrianist, would you believe in Christ?"

I just prepared an answer for your above question, unfortunately I had a crush on my computer that force me to power off the computer and in that case nothing was saved so I losted.

I'll retype my reply and post it laterly.

I ask you to participate with one question every post due to your questions need too much to be explained from my side.
I'm explaining my notion about Assyrianism and christianity but you are shooting questions.
NOTHING is there in my replies to make you consider it as a fun!!

Please you are standing on prohibited grounds that many of our people don't like involving in such matter.

take care

Albert Nasser

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22. RE: A Big Giant Circle?

May-21-2001 at 07:59 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #20
 
Dear Julia

Regarding your question:
"They believe Jesus to be a wise teacher, reverent of Yahweh but not God incarnate. These people, like the Assyrianist-Assyrian pre-Christians, have a working understanding of God and Israel. According to your model, do they need to believe in Christ?

Read Matthew 2:1-2" Now when Jesus was born in Beth-le-hem of Ju-dae-a in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem. Saying, where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him".

How those wise men had known about such sign, as they were from East? Who else know about prophets in the East, the persians were pagans worshipping Fire!! And Assyrians were worshipping God.

So, now to answer your question:
Based on deep understanding of that above biblical story,ancient Assyrians had known about the holy appearance of a holy prophet.

So, carefully analyse the mechanism of how they knew about such thing? Logically should be there written concepts in the spiritual heritage of ancient Assyrians which is in fact there is no access to such data, but the only evidence is the bible, as that story proved availability of such concept by emphasizing on this question"How they had known about the sign of Star of the East as a sign of a holy prophet's birth?"
The bible is not showing further details about that, but we should have discover the truth through careful analysis by joining related details spread here and there to get one connected ring.

The difference between us and Jews is, that we had known about Jesus and believed in him before his birth and after his birth. But Jews they didn't.

So, how you are forcing the jews in the Assyrian model??

Albert Nasser

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24. RE: A Big Giant Circle?

May-21-2001 at 10:01 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #22
 
Dear Albert,
That biblical verse you cited is quite interesting. HOwever, you've yet again failed to supply textual references that corroborates your arguments. Your interpretation of this verse is subject to scrutiny because one single verse cannot and did not identify the ethnicity of those three wise men; thus, your radical theory rests on a hypothesis and not academically studied analysis.
Consider:
"Not much is known about these Magi (traditionally called wise men). We don't know where they came from or how many they were. Tradition says they were men of high position from Parthia, near the site of ancient Babylon. How did they know that the star represented the Messiah? 1) They could hve been Jews who remained in babylon after the exile and knew the Old Testament predictions of the Messiah's coming 2) They may have been eastern astrologers who studied ancient manuscripts from around the world. Because of the Jewish exile centuries later, they would have had copies of the Old Testament in their land. 3) They may have had a special message from God directing them to the mEssiah. Some scholars say these Magi were each from a different land, representing the entire world bowing before Jesus. These men from faraway lands recognized Jesus as the Messiah when most of God's chosen people in israel did not. Matthew pictures Jesus as King over the whole world, not just Judaea." (Life Application Study Bible, Pub. by Tindale House/Zondervan).

Now, compare such a thorough interpretation of that verse with your interpretation. Which one is likely to hold ground? The one i posted. Why? Because you've incorrectly assumed and concluded that the Magi were Assyrians. They COULD be, but they ALSO could be any of those possibilities listed above, not excluding other lingering middle eastern tribes (Hittites, Cassites, other semites, chaldeans, etc). Such ambiguity just goes to show that,my dear Albert, ethnicity or class or whatnot, these things do not matter so long as the word of God manifests. God can and will use anyone to fulfil his plan; he's used missionaries from the Middle East, Assyrians, African Americans and Tunisians for his Glory and Will. Your reconciliation of nationality with religion is still shaky and yet to be defended cogently with REFERENCES. Where are the references dear Albert?

Your interpretation and conclusion rests on shaky and unqualified assumptions regarding that verse in the bible, a book that you also say is part false because they do not truthfully account for the Assyrian people.

Julia

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15. RE: Yes there is such thing as Absolute Belief in Assyrianism

May-19-2001 at 03:24 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #12
 
You stated the followings:

"Also, it doesn't matter if we were first or last in receiving GOd's word. It doesn't matter! At all! Because the whole POINT to receiving God's word is that we become CHRISTIANS."

then you added:

"We are nothing without Christ.This means an Assyrianism with a pre-Christian belief in God is paralyzed until that belief is COMPLETED with a belief in Christ.".

How come it dosen't matter!!
Under your assumption it's impossible to credit the meaning of believing in God!! You are running under the communist umbrella when you assume that. Those ancient Assyrians they hadn't seen Jesus preaching for God, but they had believed in God.Isn't that deserves to credit those ancient Assyrians??


Your are claiming that "Assyrianism with a pre-Christian belief in God is paralyzed until that belief is COMPLETED with a belief in Christ."!!!.

Who dare shall accept such logic? Jesus was another evidence to make those pagans to realize that there is God.

Nothing of that belief in God during ancient Assyrians age you could stamp it with paralyzation and as not completed untill it should be linked with belief in christ!!

Before 6000 years who was thinking about Jesus and christianity??and In fact the word of God was served properly as we are doing now.

Simply, Who should you respect more? Those who believed in God with not having any assistance from Jesus, in fact without knowing Jesus to force them by evidences in believing in God, or you respect those whom Jesus brought to them hundreds of evidences and experiments to make them believe in God!!!!!??

Assyrianism as pre-christianity ideology was serving properly the word of God while no Jesus was there!! So forcing christianity in a time that it wasn't existed is kind of fooling the reader!!

you stated:
"We have everything when we believe in Christ.
This means that if i don't follow the Assyrian ideology I will still see the Kingdom of Heaven and enjoy the spiritual relationship with the GOd of creation.".

I wish you to say: We have everything when we believe in Assyrianism through christianity. I don't see any contradiction by doing that due to Assyrianism was serving the word of God besides our national values, which they seems are discounted in christianity.

Albert Nasser


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18. Contradictions

May-21-2001 at 10:39 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #15
 

>Your are claiming that "Assyrianism with
>a pre-Christian belief in God
>is paralyzed until that belief
>is COMPLETED with a belief
>in Christ."!!!.
>
>Who dare shall accept such logic?
>Jesus was another evidence to
>make those pagans to realize
>that there is God.

So, you are saying that Assyrianism included an ordained belief in God. Therefore, since 'Jesus was another evidence to make those papgans to realize that there is no God' means that Assyrians could hear Jesus' word but don't need it because they already have a working understanding of God.

My question to you is: Do Jewish people, who have had a sound pre-Christian relationship with God and continue to respect, worship and honor their God (including their 'Zionist ideology') ...do these people need to believe in Christ to see God's kingdom and get salvation? By all means, most contemporary Jews respect and look kindly upon the word of Christ and its message. They believe Jesus to be a wise teacher, reverent of Yahweh but not God incarnate. These people, like the Assyrianist-Assyrian pre-Christians, have a working understanding of God and Israel. According to your model, do they need to believe in Christ? If so, why? What would Christ do to augment their working understanding of God and Israel? Would Chrsit detract from their Israeli-ism?

Sadly, you've already answered my question:


>Before 6000 years who was thinking
>about Jesus and christianity??and In
>fact the word of God
>was served properly as we
>are doing now.

You also answered my question in this passage:

>Simply, Who should you respect more?
>Those who believed in God
>with not having any assistance
>from Jesus, in fact without
>knowing Jesus to force them
>by evidences in believing in
>God, or you respect those
>whom Jesus brought to them
>hundreds of evidences and experiments
>to make them believe in
>God!!!!!??
My dear Albert, the Jews fit your model precisely! In your dissertation on Assyrianism, you've conveniently forgotten that the Jews, too, were symmetrical as a people with the Assyrians. According to the Bible, they were the first to receive God's covenant and follow his Will; according to your research Assyrians also did this. Therefore, according to your model for Assyrianism, Jews also fit this model and theoretically do not need a working belief in Christ that would SAVE THEM AND COMPLETE THEIR COVENANT WITH GOD.

I URGE you to seek the council of a theologian or someone vested in a systematic, scholarly understanding of God. You have no basis for revising history without a good defense. You are basically a revisionist until you provide an annotated reference list of textbooks that echo and posit your theory.
Until then,
Julia

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23. RE: Contradictions

May-21-2001 at 08:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #18
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-21-2001 at 08:46 PM (CT)

Julia

Designing questions to be applied to ready answers wont shows your questions as intelligent ones.Also you can't approve any contradictions in my answers due to my answers were made accurately and exclusively to such certain limited situations based on your questions.

So please don't act in this way as you certainly confusing yourself and the readers too.

watch how did you act in this previous question:

Sadly, you've already answered my question:
>Before 6000 years who was thinking
>about Jesus and christianity??and In
>fact the word of God
>was served properly as we
>are doing now.

I can design hundreds of questions out of this topic to deform the purpose of such answer or to drive it to apply to another deformed purpose that I wish to.

Play another game Julia!!!

Albert Nasser

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25. RE: Contradictions

May-21-2001 at 10:06 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #23
 
Ok, sure! I don't mind changing style of argumentation.

-Julia

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26. RE: SORRY, THERE IS SUCH THING AS ASSYRIANISM

May-22-2001 at 01:50 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #9
 
To Mr. Nasser (eventhough i don't think that's ur real name):

It was this christianity that kept us through the ages and protected us from keeping our culture and roots. It wasn't ur "Assyrinaism" that kept us alive until now. It appauls me when you say that christianity is what made us weak and disapear from the face of the earth!! Where was your Assyrianism to protect those millions of Assyrian people that are now muslims (sheiat, and suni)whom 90% of them are of Assyrian roots? How dare you say that Islam would had in some way preserved us in a better way! Without chiristianity 'my friend' you would've probably been now a clueless Arab Muslim herding camels in some God forsaken desert.
I am sick and tired of weak souls like you in our nation, whom in the name of 'nationalism' blast away at our christian faith using it as some cheap scape goat. God knows what type of life style people like your self live for which they want to be held accountable to no morals and no supreme being. And Mr. Albert, where in the name of "Assyrianism" did you get your twisted information from?? All the Assyrialogist, with PH.Ds, that spent all of their lives studying the ancient Assyrians agree that Assyrians were polythiestics people believeing in many Gods before Christ. So what you are telling me Mr. Allnasser, that all of these people that have PH.Ds behind their names and who spent all of their lives studying our ancient culture are liars and we should scrap all their research and knowledge and instead take you "Mr. Allnasser" as the new authority on ancient Assyrians???? I DON'T THINK SOO. Can you at least tell me what are your credentials (i.e. maybe a PH.D. in Assyriology)? Or to make your life simpler, from what accredeted book you got your twisted information from? (people like you remind me of the dog that bit the hand that fed him). You look like a handicaped person when you have nothing better to do but to advocate 'burning of our churches'. If you are on that 'ultra level of Assyrian nationalis' shouldn't you be doing a more fruitfull work in this land of freedom and opportunities in such a way that will serve the Assyrian cause? In what way will burning our churches will help our cause???? The churches that kept us as one for all these ages. Shouldn't you for example be lobbying your cause in washington D.C., to your congress men or women, to the whole world for that matter??.....instead Mr. "Allnasser" you choose the easy way out because simply you have NOTHING to offer this nation but division and rotten fruits. And God knows what your origin is, pretending to be an 'Assyrian' and from what background you come from. You might be for all I know a Bathii or a dirty Muslim trying to create more hate and division in our poor nation.
I have no pitty for people like you, but to the contrary, I have the utmost disgust and disappointment.

'ninwaya'

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29. RE: SORRY, THERE IS SUCH THING AS ASSYRIANISM

May-22-2001 at 03:20 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #26
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-23-2001 at 02:47 PM (CT)


I'll follow your footprints in every single line you typed here.Just relax and see how the Autopsy will expose your reality since you'r cowardly hiding beyond a nickname that you don't deserve!!

you stated:
To Mr. Nasser (eventhough i don't think that's ur real name):

No, this is my real name. I wish you understand that adding Al to my name wont change the source of my name as an ancient Assyrian kings name Ashur-NASSER-pal.

you stated:
"It was this christianity that kept us through the ages and protected us from keeping our culture and roots. It wasn't ur "Assyrinaism" that kept us alive until now".

Keeping you alive is not due to your christianity!! That's the continuity of new generations were born of a big wide Assyrian nation who suffered hundreds of massacres because of their christianity. We Assyrians had paid and still we do paying for the privileges of being christians to keep our faith in God.
But when those privileges discounting our national values,used as tools to apart our nation, then something wrong is happening and should be noticed.

you stated:
"It appauls me when you say that christianity is what made us weak and disapear from the face of the earth!! Where was your Assyrianism to protect those millions of Assyrian people that are now muslims (sheiat, and suni)whom 90% of them are of Assyrian roots?".

Well, here your question sets your ignorance and lack of ability to understand why that's happened to us??

The wars between the religious ideologies specifically "christianity" and "islam" were the icon of those ages. Assyrians had considered themselves as christians more than a national icon among other nations. That's how they had accepted to die for the sake of our christianity, slaughtered by muslims . At that time there was absolutely nothing in their mind about Assyrianism to fight as a nation lost her political power.That's all happened due to christianity takeover Assyrianism

you stated:
"How dare you say that Islam would had in some way preserved us in a better way!"

excuse me are you reading some other topics in some where then you came to state your funny conclusions here??
May you tell me where and how did you discover such sentense which made you to rush your conclusion!!
Be accurate when you are reading my posts. I stated the followings:
"For how long we should just watch christianity apart our nation, discounting our national values from our lives, while Islam religion gathering Arabs nationally!! Is it our christian faith meant to destroy our national values? Our churches made it, and became TOOLS to shutdown Assyrianism!!".

Then I added at the end the followings:

"Why then Assyrians can't accept Islam?? It fullfill the same purpose of calling for GOD? Because nothing about Mohammad mentioned in our ancient religious heritage, but Jesus was known for ancient Assyrians.".

Read it carefully mr.ninwaya read what I stated about the reason of NOT accepting islam: "Because nothing about Mohammad mentioned in our ancient religious heritage, but Jesus was known for ancient Assyrians."

you stated:
"I am sick and tired of weak souls like you in our nation, whom in the name of 'nationalism' blast away at our christian faith using it as some cheap scape goat."

OH, really!! sorry mr.shamasha for bothering your magisty!! I didn't know that you'r the defence minister of our christianity!!
You turned the call for Assyrianism as if it's a call for paganism!!

Wake up poorman!! You are nothing but Nil in this world!!since when you heard your Qasha preaching in your church for behalf of our nation?? And how many centuries our nation needs to understand their national values while our priests the only topic they have to preach about is "prophets of Israel" and to emphasize the paganism of our mighty ancestors which is untrue and big lies!! Based on archeological discoveries and the bible itself, our ancestors were God worshippers.

you stated:

"And Mr. Albert, where in the name of "Assyrianism" did you get your twisted information from?? All the Assyrialogist, with PH.Ds, that spent all of their lives studying the ancient Assyrians agree that Assyrians were polythiestics people believeing in many Gods before Christ. So what you are telling me Mr. Allnasser, that all of these people that have PH.Ds behind their names and who spent all of their lives studying our ancient culture are liars and we should scrap all their research and knowledge and instead take you "Mr. Allnasser" as the new authority on ancient Assyrians???? I DON'T THINK SOO".

listen mr.ninwaya:
There is no twisted information in this topic. You can call it a new logical views to our history based on non negotiable archeological discoveries shows our spiritual heritage as a nation worshipped God before christianity existed.

Sadly to say: When all national values appeared useless,no effective impact on the nation, then that is a sign of two things which are linked to serve one purpose:

1- either the nation lost the ability to live as a nation, and under this situation the nation driving herself extremely blindly, and directly to her grave.

2- Or the nation have been trained and drugged to certain levels of dosage that keeps the nation out of order acting negatively against herself, and that is serving to accomplish the above mentioned purpose in point one.

So, to analyse those 2 in one purpose we certainly should find that the nation have lost her trust in the national values due to they have considered at the last level of importance.
Such scary things wont be created from nothing!! It should be some sort of other believes/ideologies takeover this nation to forget her national values.In our new history, all political ideologies were been accepted by our people in different levels. Such acceptance had done great damage to our national values as an Assyrian nation,hardly we could consider such involvement as a tool to serve the nation to takeover the next stage to a national development.
Unfortunately the new history shows many Assyrian individuals from different sects played very important role to serve other political ideologies, those ideologies had used them as tools against their nation when ever is applicable to serve political purposes of those ideologies no more no less.

In our case we are targeting "christianity" as extremely the most important spiritual ideology that had the strongest impact on our people. Such ideology was and still is driving our nation to apart due to differences between our churches which certainly will resulted to demolish our nation as one people of one Assyrian name. We all aware about our recent political situation as we are living beyond the edge of the international society,extremely humiliated,being stateless under mercy of some "hidden powers". Due to this low level of life, our churches never took in their considerations that something must be done to save this poor nation!!instead, they deeply are digging for separation, being more divisive, as if they are aliens to their nation whom had protected them. If leaders of our churches wont take responsibility of such divisions who else could be involved to solve their issues.

Churches's issues have great impact on our nation, and due to their differences they apart our nation after they had brainwashed our people to believe in Rites of churches more than their nation. More to say that some developed national rights under their church Rites. Under such tragedical situation, churches left no choice to the nation. We should use alert of "S.O.S" code to save our next generations,to prevent them being our victims. We must develope a new notion to refresh our national values, and to qualify our understanding skills for the next stage for better survival.

when we set our Assyrianism to the same level of christianity in regard of efficiency, we are in fact developing a holy, respectable entity that touches our spiritual values.This wont be accomplished unless our priests starts preaching for Assyrianism together with christianity in their churches.
How strong impact should nationalistic preaching have on our people when it comes from the patriarch or the bishop or priests?

In our situation, we must use all means that have access to our people for nationalistic development.
We are acting as we are really americans or canadians or europeans, but we are not!! Those countries are not our culture, they don't have our roots, our roots are there back in our homeland, planted deeply where we feel our national existence gives meaning for our lives.

To change the recent situation, should all enthusiastic efforts be gathered seriously for a spiritual recall for our Assyrianism.

No one should expect that all Assyrians will praise and applaud for the new changes. It's normal having people discounting the national values from their lives living as Nil in this world due to limited skills and lack of understanding the national values because of the huge efficiency of our different churches.

And in regard of those phd titles of your praised westren scholars,I see my ancestors's real history beyond their immagination through their words.
You have to be widely open mind when you start reading our history otherwise you'll be swallowed by their hidden agenda.

The new notion should take it's normal procedure to educate our nation nationally not only religiously, using the new method that I'm suggesting to our Assyrian nation: "how to rise with Assyrianism through christianity".

Nothing of this new notion is preaching for paganism and attacking God's values that we raised through them. We need to use the influence of our christianity to reach the real unity of our nation. Who will accept such challenge among our different churches?? That's where our issues hide!! If the christianity of our churches believes in Assyrians as one nation, then our future will be more brighter, but if churches believes in keeping us apart to serve their hidden purposes which is effecting the real meanings of christianity, then no wonder that our churches have been used as TOOLS and are driving us to accept shutting down Assyrianism forcing us to accept also that no more hope shall be expected from being one nation which is fulfilling the meaning of Assyrianism.

After this accurate message addressed to you I ask you to look to yourself hundred times in the mirror and see how stupid and filthy logic you have when you forcing the word of Ba'ath in this discussion. Did you understand now who is muslim and what is ba'athy???!!!

Your attacks shows your style and measure your degrees of how low level you are.

mr.ninwaya..change your nickname, you don't deserve it.


Albert Nasser

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35. RE: SORRY, THERE IS SUCH THING AS ASSYRIANISM

May-24-2001 at 00:24 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #29
 
Ohh, so let me get this straight Nasser...
you have no credentials what so ever?? In other words you don't have any degree of any sort (i.e. Ph.D. in Assyriology, or archaeology??). Or for that matter, and correct me if I'm wrong, you can't back your argument by any crediable literature and references?? So now Mr. Nasser, who's argument is idiotic and doesn't hold water? You are asking us in this age of science and technology to disregard all the archaeological evidence and almost a whole century of research and study about ancient Assyrians and their daily living and worship ( and let me state this, all written on volumes of clay tablets upon clay tablets maybe in the hundreds if not thousands, hence my 'friend' it's called archaeological evidence), you want us to disregard all this and throw it all in the trash can?? This really shows how educated of a person you are. Have you even ever had the chance to read any of these clay tablets, or let me ask you this...do you know how to read and write ancient Assyrian cuniform language??? If the answer is no, then where in the name of 'Assur' (just to make you happy) are you getting your information from?? It was those scholars that spent all of their lives unearthing the Assyrian culture,clay tablets containing detailed description of eveyday living, war and worship, buldings and palaces from the ground, and it was those scholars that spent all of their lives translating the cuniform writings of our ancestors NOT YOU, Nasser. Let me ask you another question...if a person has meningitis (which i think thats what you have right now affecting your ability to reason), who would that person go to for help and advise? Ofcourse most reasonable people would say to neurologist (somebody who spent all of his or her life in that field of study), but to people like you the answer might be to go and seek advise and help from the garbage man. If a patient has a diabitic retnopathy, or say a retinal detachment, who do you think they would go to? The optholmologists, and optometrist ofcourse, not some Joe Shmoe, from the streets, right otherwise these people would go blind. That's what you are asking us to do essentially. You are asking us to take what you are throwing left and right in the air as 'truths' without any evidence what so ever. You have NOTHING my friend absoulotly NOTHING without any credible evidence, unless you want to pull us back to the dark ages....then that's a different story my friend, and I don't think niether I nor any reasonable person would want to be in the darkness led by a blind stuborn person like YOU. I am sorry to be the one to burst your buble, you are NOTHING until you prove otherwise, sources my friend sources and evidence. If you don't have those then I have another suggestion for you show me a miracle (our christ for example raised the dead) show me any of the above two and I'll be the first follower in (Nasser newfound religion)...without any one of the above your word and that of a homeless losser person on the street is equal to me. By the way is your name known on any national or international level? Be it scinetific, political, social or educational so that if I was to use your name as a referecne or use any of the information you are presenting to us as facts in higher level intelectual discusions (in the circle of Ph.D's of poly sci, archaeology, history, and theology proffesors) I will not be laughed at and mocked. Now you can see how NIL you are.
Now to the heart of your discusion (which is christianity the reason as to all the massecars that befallen on Assyrians and it's the reason why we don't have a country right now), just that statement in itself is ignorant and speaks volumes about the ignorance of its owner. The Assyrian and Babylonian empir and states fell and were destroyed around 700 years before christ. Their people were sloughtered by waves of invasion and conquering by the neighboring Persians first, that ruled that area for few hundred years, then by Romans and Greeks. And the Assyrians let me add, were slaughtered bruitaly to the degree of extinction not because they were chiristians (this is 700 B.C. we're talking about) but because they were Assyrians and because these neighboring nations were awaiting the fall of the Assyrian empire for hundreds of years with an eye on brutal revenge from the Assyrians since they were the conqouering power that conqouered and invaded their nations for hundreds of years. Thousands upon hundreds of thousands of Assyrians were killed during these years that neighboring countries took turns invading mesopotamia (all this happening in those 700 year after the fall Assyrians and Babylonians), and all this before the time of christ. The only surviving pockets of Assyrians that were left by the time Christ came were those small pockets of Assyrians living in the mountains of Hakkari and northern Iraq. And these statements that I'm making are not from my book or Nasser book, these are facts in history books supported by again, archaeological and historical evidence.
More interestingly 'my friend' and contrary to what you and people like you would like to blaim christianity on everything, there are historical evidence that shows that when Islam came into existance, Mohamad and his troops made a peace treaty with those Assyrians left in mesopotamia and whom took christianity as their faith (church of the east known back then as nestorians or Nassarah) and they were spared and their churches and monasaries not touched due to that treaty and due to mohamad's order. More interestingly there are historical and archaeological evidence that shows that churches and monastaries of (Nestorians) or church of the east continued in Abassite period and even flourished which was the period that Islamic power was at its peak. As a matter of fact there are many churches in Baghdad and central Iraq that dates back to that period. They also used the christian Assyrians as translators of Greek and Roman languages to translate these texts into Arabic and many of them were highly regarded and even had high positions.
As to your claim that the Tatars, only targeted and slaughtered the Assyrians, is also a falsy. The Mongols and Tatars, were an invasion and conquering force, that slaughtered whoever stood in their way and resisted their invasion, and hundreds of thousands of muslim arabs were also slaughtered. And since Assyrian Christians were not a threat to their invasion and did not resist it they were spared. There are still evidence that even shows that the churches that were established by Assyrians through out the orient were not touched or destroyed, and even during this era Assyrian churches had Patriarchs and bishops through out that region. So Mr. Nasser time and again you show your illitracy and ignorance by throwing statements left and right that are not backed by any evidence.
So my friend, I don't see where your stuborness, ignorance and empty statements come from. Statemnets that have no basis or support in anywhere in the world but in your (puney un educated head and brain).
If you need to busy your empty life with something worth while, why jump on the band wagon of blaming the church....look first around you on the national level. If there are one million Assyrians left in the world, maybe half of that number is divided into political parties and organizations. Why don't you get involved in trying to bring these thousands of political organizations together each with nothing but an empty retorhic. As opposed to the number of churches that we Assyrians have which are less than five (speaking of major ones). If you can unite all these hundreds of political parties and social or national Assyrian organizations, then the unity of these few churches will come automatically (since we are the ones who make up these churches).
If your are, Mr. allnasser that nationalistic, why propose destructive ideas and poisioning thoughts that serve nothing but more division and hate. Why not get involved for example Mr. Nasser in stirring up the Assyrian masses, here in the U.S., into building Assyrian schools that teach Assyrian language, culture, heratage and history. Whithout which the new generations growing up here in the west will be lost in this huge melting pot. Or better yet get involved in fundraisers to support scholarships for Assyrian students shooting for higher education, or for those Assyrians that arrive newly to this country and in need for help and jobs. Do you want me to keep going on how many more good things we can do for this nation rather than to just simply sit behind the computer and advocate burning churches. You are the one who needs to wake up from the darkness you live in into the practical reality and true needs of our people. Do not think I spent all this time just to reply to your (baisless not supported by any facts mumbo jumboo)...but to make my fellow Assyrian brothers and sisers aware and warn them to not believe everything put on the web by uneducated people like (your self) that can't support a word of what they say. But to be honest with you, I am not that worried because countless individuals like your self have came by and gone without leaving even a single speck of dust on any of the history books. Just because simply illitracy leads its owner no where but to oblivion. Oh and by the way, I want you to remember two names very well, Ninwaya that's my nick name that I go by not because I want to be fancy but because I was born in Nineveh (Mousel)and because the fire of both 'Omtanayotaa' and christian faith of our great Assyrain fore-fathers and ancestors before me had burn inside of me. And the second name is Zack Samo, which is the real name. And by the way I'll give you my address too, in case you deciede to drop by I will be extremely happy to SEE YOUR FACE. 3102 S. Wabash Ave. Apt. 305. The reason why I tell you to remember these two names because I don't just sit behind the computer and live and talk empty dreams and none sense ideas...I work on my dreams and achieve them. And lets see in ten year time whoes name will be more famous in the Assyrian community and national political arena...that of Ninwaya or that of Al-nasser. And the reason as to why I'm saying this is because I'm certain you will still be NOTHING and NIL.
Have a Happy and empty dreams and life.

P.S. This is the last time I spend on responding or reading any of your meaningless posts so do as you may, because I'm not lowering myself again to your uneducated illitrate level and just because I have ten million other useful things in my life to do, unlike you in which you wait for posts like this one to busy your meaningless life with.

TAKE CARE

Zack Ninwaya.....................................

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38. Accolades to Ninwaya

May-24-2001 at 12:20 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #35
 
Dear Ninwaya,
I'm glad that you brought a good dimension to this conversation. I only hope that Albert's sphere of thought is penetrated by your words. In having a theory like Albert's , it is often difficult for anyone to allow new ideas to creep in. What would especially benefit Albert is if he a) used textual, annotated resources in his arguments. Now, he treats us like we are just average people but instead we are in academic circles that demand a higher level of argumentation. Also, he leaves us no choice but to think he's some average Joe because he's not yet told us his educational background. I'm not positing that he's an ignorant man, but it would help us to know where this guy got his information from (a geocities or angelfire website, or from Oxford press?)
Julia

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8. MORE LIES

May-16-2001 at 09:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #6
 

"You should be proud of your original religion which is Assyrianism.
You should be proud of your national ideology which is Assyrianism." -Albert Nasser





"Please, please review your theological
understanding of Assyrianism before you invoke it in your discussion of christianity!" - Albert Nasser



Albert, if you want to engage in a cogent discussion on this topic, don't confuse words and terms. There is no such thing as "a theological understanding of Assyrianism." You are confusing both terminology and ideas. You must first grasp the definitions of the words you are invoking before you try engaging in a discussion of this nature.

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13. Please List Your Credentials

May-18-2001 at 03:12 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #8
 
Albert, if you have time, please list your credentials and textbooks that substantiate your theories regarding the prechristian Assyrian civilization.
Thank you so much!
Julia Sorisho

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16. RE: MORE LIES

May-19-2001 at 03:36 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #8
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-19-2001 at 03:41 PM (CT)

If you like to discuss, please try to control yourself to lead you controling your words.
NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, try to rise up to the high level of polite argument. I'm not like others you might have known!!!

Thank you, and God bless you

Albert Nasser

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3. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

May-04-2001 at 08:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Dear Albert,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I get the sneaking feeling that there is an ever-increasing number of like-minded Assyrians.

As you rightly point out, Assyro-babylonians worshipped God way before they were 'shutdown' by Christianity. Many Christians point out that that the Christian God is the one and only true God and that the 'pagan' Assyro-babylonians could not possibly have known a true God because they were polytheistic- apart from showing the theological arrogance of people who make such claims, it is also untrue. Many religions start off as polytheistic, and their natural growth and evolution takes them to their final expression in a monotheistic form- we would probably be worshipping Ashur or Marduk or some other Assyrian god had an Assyrian 'Moses' miraculously sprung up in the midst of political and religious turmoil around the time of the dissolution of the Assyro-babylonian empire and united us under one religion and name- which is, I guess, what Nabonaid was attempting.

"Is it a coincedence that Islam religion works for Arab nation, while christianity works against only Assyrianism!!

For how long we should just watch christianity apart our nation, while Islam religion gathering Arabs and bring more none Arabs to their religion!!"... how true.

Look what Sultan Mohammed II, the Conqueror of Constantinople, said in the Fifteenth Century about us and the other Christians living in Byzantium- "You have heard that the Christians have united against us. But fear not. Your heroism will be above theirs...the Christians fight constantly among themselves, because every one desires to be a king, or a prince, or the first among them.. Every one takes care of himself only; no one thinks of the common interest..When they lose a battle they always say.."This or that traitor has betrayed us!" or .."They have occupied our country by turning our internal difficulties to their own advantage!......"'
Unfortunately, his words are as true today as they were then . If we can't accept Assyrianism as our true 'religion' then lets at least do away with the destructive side of Christianity before it REALLY 'shuts us down'... for good.

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4. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

May-14-2001 at 11:41 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Wow...!
I have to say that I am QUITE amazed by what both of you wrote. If either of you read my post, I beg you to consider what I have to say:

When God, YHWH, the God of Israel and the God of the Old testament, became flesh, he did so in Jesus Christ. Christ is God Incarnate, the very word of God expressed in the humanity of Christ. But why did Christ come to earth? Why would God incarnate himself when the Assyrians or Jews already knew God, as you say?

Well, Christ came because his coming was prophesized in the Old Testament. "The virgin shall conceive...and he shall be called Emmanuel."
This prophetic statement in Isaiah reminds the people of Israel that their Messiah was to come.

Christ is our Messiah; he saved the world by redeeming our sins. The relationship with God was NOT intact prior to Christ; God decided that he loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosovever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

This was the NEW relationship between God and MAN, something MAN could not earn because he was so sinful. Man's sins had to be paid, and God decided that He himself would redeem the sins of mankind, and no longer require his believers to atone for their misdeeds by offering animal sacrifices.

When Christ came, it was God's highest form of love expressed to mankind like no other time in history. We do not deserve to live, as we deserve the excruciating cross of Christ; a perfect God didn't deserve that death!!!

Please, I beg that you reconsider your statements regarding Christianity going against Assryainism.
Christianity is NOT linked to race or ethnicitiy or nationalism because it is a faith of your SOUL and SPIRIT, not about a cultural nametag you were born with. Christianity is open to the whole world, even if you are from Botswana, Bosnia, Yemen, Thailand, Peru, El Salvador, Russia, Luxembourg, New Zealand......it doesn't matter if you are Haitian or Assyrian or Greek or Black or Spanish or Korean...that is one ofthe beauties of GOd's word, that it is available to ANYONE who believes in him.

If you believe this much....how then is your Assyrianism anywhere near as important as your salvation?? Will being Assyrian restore your relationship with God? I dont think so!

Being assyrian is nice, it is a heritage and culture, but it is not to be supreme in our lives. Being radical about our nationalism only breeds hatred, wars, racism because we would then believe that we are better than other people.
But we are not, we are all the same.

Please reconsider who Christ is and why He came before you write about the shutdown of Assyrianism, which, by the way, there is no such thing as Assyrianism.

Julia Sorisho

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27. I Give Up

May-22-2001 at 02:12 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Dear Albert,
It saddens me that we aren't able to have a real conversation about these notions you have about Assyrianism. I think I've spent way too many hours posting cogent arguments on this site and I strongly believe you haven't made any good effort to respond to them clearly and coherently. We end up getting lost in each other's words and in this case it proved fruitless.

I admit that in talking to you about this topic I started out wanting you to see Christ's love. I wanted to be a witness to you so that you knew the impact of what you were saying about Christianity designed to shutdown assyrianism. however, I admit that i lost my focus and I just wanted to prove you wrong. You, like everyone else in the world, are a creation of God and worthy of love and respect. I do give you both as a Christian but i failed to truly let that show in the posts. The posts were frustrating me because I don't believe you were addressing my questions.
Anyhow, at this point I just hope that you will seriously review your understanding of Christ. Perhaps a separate study of Christ (unrelated to Assyrianism) would benefit you. I pray that you will someday appreciate God's love through Christ's redemption for your sins.

In Christ,
Julia

P.S. I didn't want to make what may seem like a 'holy exit' or something; i just simply do not believe I can further contribute to the forum as I have said all I need to say about Christ and his bountiful love.

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28. RE: You Gave Up.

May-22-2001 at 12:29 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #27
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-22-2001 at 03:33 PM (CT)

Julia

You ruined the series of the topic by dragging and limiting the discussion to narrow views that weren't accurately applied to my topic.

If you remember my warning to stop you forcing the name of Jesus in our discussion from that point I realized that the topic entered in another subject.

It's easy just to mention Jesus's name, but to explain ideas to setup a new notion based on logical views gathered from references which accumulate my experience, that's were the difficulty sits.

Jesus alone is a giant subject and there is another story about him mentioned in some Assyrian references.(Read the Assyrian Professor Qustantin Matviv and his book "ancient mesopotamia civilization" 1987 translated to arabic 1991).And also the same story was confirmed by the well-known Assyriologist Simon Parpola-Finland-University of Helsinki.

I was defending the national values that have been discounted by "our" christianity. I don't believe that Jesus is happy seeing us apart because of his name!! That's how we should think about christianity nowadays not only blindly drawing the cross sign on our face and that's it,every thing is ok. NO!! every thing is not ok!! why not every think is not ok? That's why I addressed this topic to our Assyrian people to think hundred times when they are creating new churches or defending churches Rites on account of our true national values!! Dragging people to more divisions while all of them, totally all of them are christians!!

take care

Albert Nasser

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30. One Last Comment

May-23-2001 at 06:28 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #28
 
Albert, I just want to ask you one more thing:



If you were asked to renounce either your Christianity or your Assyrianism, and face the rest of your life as a believer in Christ OR a believer in the ideology of Assyrianism, which would you choose?




Please limit your response to fewer than 50 words

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31. RE: One Last Comment

May-23-2001 at 08:26 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #30
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on May-23-2001 at 08:32 PM (CT)

Julia

why you are so confused about those 2 words.
Assyrianism and christianity for me are the same concept. That's how I discovered the truth of christianity through bible and other references as books, published researches about archeological discoveries.
most spiritual acts of christianity were quoted from Assyrian spiritual heritage which I'm calling it part of Assyrianism.

Read my main topic about Assyrianism I set it very clear for every Assyrian might touched by this notion.

I stated:
christianity is the same conception of Assyrianism, or it's the Assyrianism itself but with those little changes which designed to work against Assyrianism.

I'm christian, I shall buried as christian. But you should understand that national values are our passage to liberate ourselves politically.Religion wont help in this matter.That's why calling for Assyrianism is more practical to save this nation.

take care

Albert Nasser

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33. Therein Lies the Crux of our Discussion

May-23-2001 at 08:51 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #31
 
Dear Albert,
Because we didn't share a similar belief in terminology, we were unable to have a real discussion on this topic. Your definition of Christianity and Assyrianism is entirely your own and so far, not substantiated by the Bible, theological works by our Church or any church in the entire world. Thus, you will be limited in your future discussions about this topic because you are invoking words (Christianity, Assyrianism) that you've casually redefined. This is a fatal flaw in discussions. I am in college right now and it is CRUCIAL for us to be very, very careful about what words we use when arguing a certain subject. Otherwise, our arguments are debunked and invalid. There can be no real discourse on topics like this unless there is a mutual understanding of definitions of the terms invoked in discussion.

All this time I discussed Christianity (a) and Assyrianism (b) as two different entitites. A does not equal b; A is never equal to B because their are bodies of information (the Bible, Christian theology, historical textbooks, archaeological studies of Assyrian people, etc) that distinguish and separate the two as being entirely different entities.

From our discussions, I did learn that next time I engage in a dialogue with someone I refrain from doing so until we have a common understanding of terminology. I hope you do the same! If the whole world considers the sky blue, but Albert deviates from the rest of the world and calls it Azure/Navy/Orange, he needs to defend it with textual, historical, systematic references or else his arguments are loony. I say that in love, Albert!!

Julia

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34. RE: Therein Lies the Crux of our Discussion

May-24-2001 at 00:16 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #33
 
Julia
just to remind you of what you said:

"Your definition of Christianity and Assyrianism is entirely your own and so far, not substantiated by the Bible, theological works by our Church or any church in the entire world. Thus, you will be limited in your future discussions about this topic because you are invoking words (Christianity, Assyrianism) that you've casually redefined."

Indeed you will never find what's in your mind about my opinions in the bible.
This is a new trail for a new notion that I'm spreading based on 100% perfect evidences from the bible compaired to our history.
That's mean the results of my comparison among several references resulted this new opinion.
That's why such details(results) wont be mentioned in the bible.

So to reach my conclusions you have to go through the same experience that I have of searching with "open mind" and that is very important to assist you using the logic when analyse your targets.

If the sky is blue, let it be blue!! But remember one day in future time someone will reach my conclusions based on seeds that I'm planting now.

Be brave to face the "common mistake" if millions said this is wrong, but in fact it's right, here you served the purpose of the truth.

In what term you shall find in the bible that ancient Assyrians were God worshippers?? No where!
But in fact they were worshipping God, the only God that we know today!!
The story of Adam&Eve is part of our bible. Every Assyrian(forget about christians non-Assyrians)believe in christianity that story became part of his spiritual belief.
That story was quoted from the ancient Assyrian spiritual heritage!! Do you know that?? (Read what the Assyrian Assyriologist FRED TAMIMI had wrote about this archeological discovery!! Archeological discovery is about digging, seeing and touching three different antiquities from Assyria and China and India. Those antiquities were compaired and related to it's originality as the 2 of them china and india appeared to be quoted from the genuine one which was Assyrian.

Based on that, how could you believe in Adam & Eve story which forms part of your spiritual ideology(christianity) to worship God, but you don't believe in Assyrianism as it was true spiritual ideology that had served and worshipped the same God??

If you don't have access to such references then sorry to say that I'm wasting my time in repeating the same answers!! Instead, please try to investigate about those facts.
The same other facts that I'm mentioning here there are references for them.

I just want you to be satisfied with the type of analysis that I have in my posts based on facts and logic related to the same type of strong historical, archeological evidences.

take care

Albert Nasser

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36. Response

May-24-2001 at 00:34 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #34
 
Dear Albert,
We believe in one God
the Father Almighty
maker of all things,
visible and invisible
And in One Lord Jesus
Christ, the only begotten Son of God
First born of All Creation
begotten of his Father
Very God of Very God
being of one substance
with the Father,
by whom the worlds were framed and all things created
who for us men, and for our Salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
and was made Man
and was conceived and born of the Virgin Mary
and suffered and was crucified under Pontius Pilate
and was buried
and the third day he Rose
as it was written,
and ascended into Heaven
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father
and shall come again to judge both the quick and the dead

-Julia Sorisho

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32. RE: One Last Comment

May-23-2001 at 08:42 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #30
 
BOTH ASSYRIANISM AND CHRISTIANITY.
You may ask how believing in both.

Because spiritual acts of christianity were quoted from Assyrianism. If I deny christianity it means I'm denying same concept in Assyrianism. That's my evaluation for my belief.

take care

Albert Nasser

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37. RE: One Last Comment

May-24-2001 at 00:50 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #32
 
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
American Samoa
Andorra
Angola
Anguilla
Antarctica
Antigua and Barbuda
Arctic Ocean
Argentina
Armenia
Aruba
Ashmore and Cartier Islands
Atlantic Ocean
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas, The
Bahrain
Baker Island
Bangladesh
Barbados
Bassas da India
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bermuda
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Bouvet Island
Brazil
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burma
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Cayman Islands
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
China
Christmas Island
Clipperton Island
Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Colombia
Comoros
Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Congo, Republic of the
Cook Islands
Coral Sea Islands
Costa Rica
Cote d'Ivoire
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic

D


Denmark
Djibouti
Dominica
Dominican Republic

E


Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Europa Island

F


Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)
Faroe Islands
Fiji
Finland
France
French Guiana
French Polynesia
French Southern and Antarctic Lands

G


Gabon
Gambia, The
Gaza Strip
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Gibraltar
Glorioso Islands
Greece
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guam
Guatemala
Guernsey
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana

H


Haiti
Heard Island and McDonald Islands
Holy See (Vatican City)
Honduras
Hong Kong
Howland Island
Hungary

I


Iceland
India
Indian Ocean
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy

J


Jamaica
Jan Mayen
Japan
Jarvis Island
Jersey
Johnston Atoll
Jordan
Juan de Nova Island

K


Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kingman Reef
Kiribati
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan

L


Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg

M


Macau
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Man, Isle of
Marshall Islands
Martinique
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mayotte
Mexico
Micronesia, Federated States of
Midway Islands
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Montserrat
Morocco
Mozambique

N


Namibia
Nauru
Navassa Island
Nepal
Netherlands
Netherlands Antilles
New Caledonia
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
Niue
Norfolk Island
Northern Mariana Islands
Norway

O


Oman

P


Pacific Ocean
Pakistan
Palau
Palmyra Atoll
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paracel Islands
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Pitcairn Islands
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico

Q


Qatar

R


Reunion
Romania
Russia
Rwanda

S


Saint Helena
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Pierre and Miquelon
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
South Africa
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Southern Ocean
Spain
Spratly Islands
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Svalbard
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria

T


Taiwan entry follows Zimbabwe
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tokelau
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tromelin Island
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Turks and Caicos Islands
Tuvalu

U


Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Uruguay
Uzbekistan

V


Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands

W


Wake Island
Wallis and Futuna
West Bank
Western Sahara
World

Y


Yemen

Z


Zambia
Zimbabwe


Taiwan
Christ saved these people. Assyrians are part of this list of over 100 nations. For you to say that Assyrianism is fundamentally linked to Christianity, to the point where you cannot easily distinguis between being Christian or Assyrianist is SAD. What about the billions of people who havent seen the light of day of your Assyrianist theory? Guess what, if they believe in Christ they will see the kingdom of God. Period. You insult Christ's gospel by linking Assyrianism to his news of Salvation.

Julia

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41. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 01:52 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Dear Albert

I for one think you are the most conscious, and
the most knowledgeable assyrian i ever seen. I
except everthing you wrote, also i admire you by
telling the truth . I belive the jewish bible is nothing but stories, which never happened . When i go to other sites specially to sites about ancinet history, other nations historians have more respect, and admire the great assyrian power and civilization than most assyrians, which are blinded by man made religion.

thanks a million

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42. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 03:46 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #41
 
hey albert,
Have you resorted to writing and giving yourself a pat on the back? Because foshana's English sounds very similiar to yours.
You know what I noticed today? I saw your reply to Matthew C- the poor guy who just wanted some help because he had bought a treasure map of Iraq dating back to about 1850-re:"Excavations at Nineveh" in the History section. I quote "Are you Assyrian? If you are not Assyrian don't wonder..."
So this comes from the "most knowledgeable person i ever seen."

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45. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 11:11 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #42
 
welcome back vabra!!

I was assuming in my reply to you on April 21 2001 that you are Assyrian!! but it seems you are not. That's why I began started to ask people about their nationality, just to avoid baptise them as Assyrians in my replies!!!

Welcome back, and yes I found Mr.Oshana saying the truth also.
Now may you answer my question: what is your nationality? it seems that I'm surrendered by non-Assyrians like you and samuel, Eden and julia with that fake Assyrian name "sorisho"

take care

Albert Nasser

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46. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 11:32 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #45
 
Vabra

regarding my reply to MatthewC about wondering, you should continue the sentence to find why he should not wondering but Assyrians should be??!!He had the map and he was wondering!! I said: we who should wonder about such map in your hands as most of our antiquities had been looted and been sold in international auctions.

That was my main argument.

take care

Albert Nasser

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47. HEY..dont' trip on my name!

Jun-04-2001 at 12:52 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #45
 
Dear Albert,
You don't think my name is real? It is, actually. Sorisho means "sawra't esho" = which means "visage of christ." This is a family name; i'm a Bazneta (my parents are from Northern Iraq) and it's been in the family for a while. Besides, I am assyrian, 100%! All along you never made assumptions, and now you're thinking i'm not an assyrian or my name is fake.
Trust me, Julia Sorisho is the real thing.
Later,
Julia

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48. RE: HEY..dont' trip on my name!

Jun-04-2001 at 05:28 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #47
 
Julia

I believe you now.(only in regard of your name!!).

Albert Nasser

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43. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 07:35 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #41
 
Dear Foshana,
You've not contributed anything to this discussion by saying "...assyrians are blinded by man-made religion." That is an entirely different subject and I suggest you start a different thread with that discussion topic. Otherwise, in this discussion we're presuming that 1) we profess a belief in Christ and 2)that we are Assyrian, and we are trying to reconcile the notion that Albert has brought up ("Christianity is designed to Shutdown assyrianism).
It would be great to discuss your viewpoints in more detail but it doesn't suit the trajectory of this discussion.
Later -
Julia

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44. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 10:40 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #41
 
Dear Mr.oshana

welcome to your forefathers's heaven,the heaven of the true Assyrian prophet Jesus-Tamoz!!

Million Thank you goes to you also.

take care

Albert Nasser

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49. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 06:15 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #44
 
Dear Albert,

You will be very suprised how Assyrian I am, I was born in Baghdad, Iraq, and my parents are both 100% Assyrian from Northern Iraq (Nochia).

If you consider your true prophet to be jesus tamoz ( this is the first I've heard of him) tells you how famous he is compared to the real Jesus in the Bible, why do you quote from the Bible?

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50. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 07:35 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #49
 
Vabra

I'm not only very surprised but shocked!!!!
anyhow it's not my business to interfere in personal affairs. I thank you for sharing this topic with hot arguments.

so, now about your Question: I don't quote to support what is written in bible and Tawrat. I quote to uncover the real roots of what is mentioned in bible and Tawrat.
And in regard of Tamoz, dear Vabra you shall never read anything in the bible and Tawrat about that name. You have to extend your readings to the otherside to your history to discover the truth about your nation, that's where other part of your Assyrianism hide.
Tamoz was crucified while there were 2 criminals beside him!!! Isn't that remind you with the same thing that happened to Jesus!!!!????

Is it a coincidence that the same circumstances happened to the same situation when the victim only is a prophet!!!!!!!!!????

take care

Albert Nasser

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51. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 11:08 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #50
 
Dear Albert,

How can you prove this mythical story was not copied from the Bible and changed a little, like the Koran.
O.K say this prophet did die on a cross, what claim did he make? did he claim he was the Son of God? Was it prophecied 700 years earlier i.e Isaiah 53:4,5? did he make all the claims that Jesus made? If not, then this shows who's a copy and WHO IS REAL.

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52. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-04-2001 at 11:25 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #51
 
dear vabra

after my evidence you are not in a position to argue such historical fact that is documented in broken cunieforms that had been revealed to public in 1917 of the last 84 years.

take care

albert Nasser

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53. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-05-2001 at 01:10 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #52
 
dear albert Nasser

I just wanted to say please do not waste your time, your are far more intelligent than these closed minded, brain washed beings.


thanks


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54. RE: YOU GAVE UP

Jun-05-2001 at 02:29 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #53
 
Dear Albert and Foshana,

Are you both the same person? because your English certainly improved overnight, anyway it's because of people like you that Assyrians are the last in the world, dispersed and living only at the mercy of the western countries. Most Assyrians-older generation have your mentalitly, but let me tell you that the younger generation growing up in these God blessed countries are coming to know the REAL JESUS as their Lord and Saviour, and that gives us some hope yet.

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55. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-05-2001 at 04:50 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #53
 
Dear Albert and foshana,

You both are SO INTELLIGENT people, I Just wonder what kind of jobs you have, like a brain surgeons, or maybe professors of something useful, or chemical engineers or maybe unemployed? thats why you have so much time to write fictional stories.

By the way Albert, you did not answer the second part to my question, if tamoz-jesus died on a cross, what was the purpose of his death? what claims has he made, where are they recorded? OR maybe that's why you gave up, because you can't answer these questions.

I have another question for you, what church do you attend?

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56. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-06-2001 at 01:15 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #55
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on Jun-06-2001 at 01:17 PM (CT)

Vabra

I didn't give up!! words don't come easy to reveal important secrets, it was revealed partially about Tamoz in 1917!! Don't expect to get all answers in just two "knock knock"!! 2084 years passed to reveal just those words about Truth of Tamoz and Jesus!!!!


regarding your assumption whether I'm unemployed or not? for the sake of your curiosity I shall answer that for you:

I'm CNC programmer-Machinist(Computer Numerical Control) an very advanced Technology ( like Robotics)in manufacturing industry.Dealing with different programming language not similar to computer language.

Besides, I'm an artist of classic drawings,portraitist and professional Calligraphist for Arabic and Assyrian scripts.
Besides, Freelance Journalist (arabic), newspaper/Magazine designer.

I hope that will suit your assumption.

take care

albert Nasser

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57. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-06-2001 at 09:42 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #56
 
Last edited by vabra on Jun-06-2001 at 09:46 PM (CT)

Dear Albert,

O.K I'm sorry, I'll admit I lost my temper a little, but some questions still need to be answered, like if jesus tamoz died, what was the purpose of his death, and where is the information recorded? Because we know from the Bible that Jesus Christ died for our sins, because no other blood can atone, no other blood is good enough. And so because of HIS DEATH we can pray, we did not have the right to speak to God, and now we do.

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58. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-06-2001 at 10:30 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #57
 
Last edited by Albert Nasser on Jun-07-2001 at 09:17 AM (CT)

Vabra
I agree that some questions are not yet answered.I refere you to read (Mesopotamia civilization for the Assyrian author Dr. professor Qustantin Matviv - 1986 Mosco)He revealed that secret about Tamoz in his book.

I don't believe immediately in what I read unless I previously had an conclusion based on my searching in different references, so it's a matter of just catching the first light of the truth that match my conclusion which I gathered from experience.

This is all I can provide you about Tamoz, You take it or you leave it, is up to you.

The author in his book is totally eliminating the existence of Jesus, that's where I don't agree, so I assumed that Tamoz was the real prophet whom Jews changed his name to Jesus or they create Jesus character based on Tamoz!!
That's how I still believe that Jesus is Assyrian prophet has nothing to do with jews!!

second assumption:
letters between Jesus and king Abger were really seen and that approves the existence of Jesus who born before 2000 years.

Third assumption:
based on new evidences were revealed orally from very well-known Assyrian historian/writer declared that:
Assyrians during occupying Juda they exiled all people of Galilee to Assyria and brought Assyrians instead. So jesus was from Galilee. Mother Mery was Assyrian and that makes jesus Assyrian.This assumption appears reasonable due to jews didn't like the idea of a prophet came from Galilee as it's mentioned in the bible.

take care

Albert Nasser

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59. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-07-2001 at 08:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #58
 
Last edited by vabra on Jun-07-2001 at 08:34 PM (CT)

Dear Albert,

Now I feel I can talk to you since you said you don't believe that Jesus did not exist.

First of all, the TRUE Christians don't believe Jesus to be a Prophet, because even Moslems believe this- we believe HIM to be 100% GOD, yet 100% Man, that's why HE is called The Son Of Man. GOD came down among us, that's why one of His many Names is EMMANUEL. This is an Aramaic word for GOD AMONG US. He came down to rescue us, we were all headed for Hell because of what Adam and Eve did, it was not just a question of eating from a certain tree- it was much more than that. It was all about not listening to the GOD ALMIGHTY- who KNOWS ALL, and LOVES ALL, and wants to take care of us, if only we let HIM. So because of what Adam and Eve did sin entered in- ROMANS 5:12-21.

Albert, it sounds like you have a hatred for the Jews, am I right? Let me tell you that this hatred is what's keeping us from what GOD has in plan for us. This hatred goes back to our first forefathers even before they took the Jews captives. ISAIAH 10:7 GOD is saying to the Assyrina King but it was not so in your heart. HE is saying, I was angry with ISRAEL, (because often they went after other gods,) but you (Assyrians) had hatred and wanted to wipe them out. This was not what GOD wanted, HE wanted to discipline them. That's why GOD is calling us the ROD of HIS ANGER. ISAIAH 10:5 Woe To ASSYRIA, the rod of MY Anger. We were the "rod" in His Hand, we were only meant to "smack" them (ISRAEL). Like a loving father who smacks his children for their own good. And I believe a lot of Assyrians still have this hatred- it's in their blood- it came down from generation to generation.(This included me, because for a long time I used to think were before them, why do they have to be GOD'S CHOSEN-this is another long subject that we can go into another time) We will NOT be RESTORED as a nation UNTIL WE FORGIVE all who have WRONGED US. And let me tell you that our early FOREFATHERS were no angels either, their cuelty is recorded in HISTORY. And please don't tell me it's all fabricated material, because its in the Assyrian Ancient drawings.

Albert, once you receive Jesus in your heart, it does not matter whether you are Greek, Jew, Assyrian and all the other nationalities on earth,read GALATIANS 3:26-29. JESUS is the ONLY ONE who can unite us. NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK. The human race have been fighting and KILLING each other ever since the first TWO BROTHERS- GENESIS 4.

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67. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Sep-24-2001 at 08:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #59
 
Dearest Vabra

I must congradulate you on your awarness of the HOLY BOOK ( whether Jewish, Cambodian, Kurdish or any other nation in that matter), still, it is the HOLY BOOK. HOLY beacuse it is the book of our LORD GOD who is HOLY, therfore verything about HIM is HOLY.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Our dear brother in JESUS CHRIST (LORD, GOD, SAVIOUR, REDEEMER, LIFE GIVER), Albert, wants to claim JESUS for Assyrians. That's not a bad idea, only if the genuine Assyrian Nationalists teach its sons and daughter the TRUE LOVE of JESUS (just as it is being taught and preached in our Churhes). If the Assyrian Nation had implemented this years and years ago, we would not have had such downgrading, misleading and destructive tradition such as "SHOODEH" (TRIBES). If we refer back to the past, while asking the question "WHY ARE WE DIVIDED?", I think we will find that "SHOODEH" has played a major sorrow bringing role. It is not JESUS CHRIST (Emmanuel, Lord of Lords, Leader & Commander, King of Saints, King, The Just one.....), or Christianity that has caused divison within the Assyrian Nation. As for that Despicable thing "SHOODA", this is the 'tares among the weeds'Mat 13:24.

Please don't get me wrong. I am a proud Assyrian and respect tradtion that does not bring destruction and distance from the TRUE LOVE OF MARAN O'PAROOGAN EESHO MSHEEKHA.

P.S This other Assyrian Jesus Albert is producing, what SHOODA was he?

I think John 11:25-26 sums it all up.

Lots of love and Grace of God to you and all the Christians/non-Christians in this world.

Lazar

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Albert Nassermoderator

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68. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Sep-26-2001 at 11:59 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #67
 
Dear Lazar

please where in my all replies I had claimed Jesus is for Assyrians as per your reply to Vabra "Albert, wants to claim JESUS for Assyrians."!!!!!! Please it seems you did not get my whole idea about this topic!! I'm emphasizing that ancient assyrians were not pagans, as many of you think our ancestors were pagans and all recent Assyrian churches believes in that!!

read my recent topic about our king Nebochadnasser who claims that he saw the SON OF GOD!!According to Bible, this statement "SON OF GOD" was derived from our ancient religion to christianity,and that's what Bible is trying to teach us all about,"THE MIGHTY GOD", whether was in form of Jesus christ or as a holy spirit up in the sky!! So that's it!! we know God since our ancestors ancient times, and based on those biblical and historical facts we did not came from pagans roots.If you want to preach about God you must find other people not Assyrians people of God!!

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60. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-27-2001 at 09:53 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
To say that we know God before we know Christianity is to deny God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. His word was with Him in the beginning and became flesh that we might be saved from the penalty of sin. Islam believes one can appease this need on onesown. You are not the perfect sacrifice, without blemish or sin. You can never fill the requirement. Jesus, only Jesus. HE is God incarnate. God provided the required sacrifice himself. He desired our communion with him so much, (love) that He became flesh and dwelt among us, loved us, taught us, and commanded us to keep His commandments (Exodus 20) to show our love to Him. To the true beleiver in Christ His commandments are not grievious nor burdensome. He embrases all peoples with this opportunity because He views us only as either saved or lost. now. I ask you this. IF wise men say His star in the east, did they not have to be west to travel toward it and come to Judah? God has blessed the people of the east with a great burden and an uplifting gift for the whole world. The world has been blessed through Assyria. Not because Assyria did anything on it's own to deserve it but because , and only because , God creates a path and then follows it. Take pride, first in what God has done for you, and your heritage will be blessed because of that.

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61. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jun-30-2001 at 10:47 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #60
 
To say we had known God before Christianity, is a non-negotiable historical fact, and by that we are not denying neither the God nor the Christ.

I argue every one of those whom they had been brain-washed to say what makes the Assyrian people appears as savages/wiled/killers/war machine/against humanity/against God/uncivilized..etc. to read history before coming here to lecture us about God!!

Albert Nasser

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62. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jul-07-2001 at 12:13 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #61
 
I am sure the Assyrian people are an honorable and proud people. God has had many dealings with the people over many centuries. He blessed them, called them by name, and raised them up for His good purpose. All this is documented in the ancient writings and sacred texts. Your pride, however, denies you the blessings that the same and only God has in store for you and all who accept His Son, The Christ. You could not have known God before knowing His Christ for His promise was with Him since the foundation of the world. John 17:24. The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Ephesians says in its very first chapter :"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with EVERY spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,..." Perhaps God's desire is to draw all men to Himself. He cares not what we call ourselves and what distances or histories devide us. He drew us from Asia, Africa, Europe,..His spirit knows no boundaries or histories. We have all been warlike,enslaving, and cruel in centuries past. But God's only begotten Son taught us to love, live, and die for one another. I apologize for the offenses that have perpitrated on your people in the name of that good and gentle savior. Men with NO understanding of love and sacrifice did many evil things to the people of the earth. The evil one is a cruel deceiver! Rev.13:9 says "If any one has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword." He shall have his day before the Almighty. We will rejoice won't we! But, please, do not judge the message by the messager. Before there was an Assyria, There was Christ. He is in the plan in the garden of Eden to redeem you and me. To pay for us, to buy us back. Humbly, yours

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63. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Jul-09-2001 at 09:56 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #62
 
dear Roe,

My heart rejoices when I read what Christ did for us, while we were still sinners, and even rejoices more when my brothers and sisters share this- the greatest news that ever has been and ever will be.

But I really think the problem here is a typical Assyrian reaction to Christianity. They blame all the problems we've ever had as an Assyrian nation on Christianity, they fail to see, or even worse, will not want to believe the prophecies concerning Assyria.

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64. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Aug-04-2001 at 12:53 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #63
 
I agree with Albert. Christianity is ultimately incompatible with Assyrianism, as is any ism which does not place Jesus Christ central to its conceptualisation of existence. With regards to this ism, the incompatibility arises when national values conflict with Christian values Should I pray for my enemy, or do exploit him and dispose of him when I have no further use of him? The gods our ancient peoples worshiped had no problem with the second option which is inconsistent with both the character of Jesus and the criteria He places on His followers.

Nationalism needs to be self-seeking and even racist in order to look after its interest in the world arena. On a grander scale, no matter how politically correct it presents itself, a nationality has to be pragmatic and even ruthless when protecting its foothold on this earth. Christianity views this world as temporal and seeks the heavenly kingdom of God which transcends political and racial boundaries.

Are you an Assyrian Christian? Which of these two identities is central to your being? If there is a conflict of identities, it is because one is of God and the other of man, and ultimately you will hate one master and serve the other.

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65. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Aug-05-2001 at 06:19 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #64
 
Last edited by vabra on Aug-05-2001 at 06:22 PM (CT)

Dear Miskeena,

Once you deny everything else in your life, (including your background no-matter how great that was) and what I mean by denying is that they come second, third and so on... after Jesus, everything else naturally falls into place.

Once I heard about Jesus and that he died for me, and really beleived it, nothing else on this earth compared to the love I felt on that day.

I really think that Assyria will be restored, but only according to the great plan of God Almighty.

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66. RE: christianity is designed to shutdown Assyrianism!!

Aug-06-2001 at 07:37 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #65
 
I am new to nineveh on line.

I just want to say that I am greatly disturbed that views belonging to Albert exist.

At the same time I am greatly encouraged to hear godly responses from my Christian brothers and sisters. It is great that there are Assyrian Christians, holding firmly to the truths of the gospel as expressed in the Bible, throughout the world.

It is my prayer that God may grant Albert repentance and eternal life through forgiveness, obtained only by faith in Christ's death and resurrection for forgiveness of sins.

Sadly, alot of people are blinded to the truth and just don't want to know the truth. Didn't Jesus say: " Do not give to dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6.

I think people have already answered Albert's views adequately and to reply again to someone who just doesn't want to know is a waste of time.

However prayer isn't a waste of time. Maybe all the bible-alone believing Christains reading this should pray for Albert and those like him.

Regards,


Ramsina

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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