Forum Name: Assyrian Forums - Peshitta
Message URL: https://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/forums/board.cgi?az=read_count&om=961&forum=peshitta&viewmode=all
Message ID: 13

#13, RE: K'YANA
Posted by Paul Younan on Apr-02-2002 at 09:54 PM

In response to message #12

Shlama Akhi Don,

Just as an FYI - your last post and this latest reply from me will not be saved when going to the new server in a few weeks. The data backup was performed last night and any subsequent messages on this forum will not be "carried over." Don't be mad at me - it's not intentional!

>I recall that there were other
>MEN besides Christ who raised
>people from the dead.
>How then are they able
>to do that? As
>for forgiving sins, I only
>know that Jesus said that
>the works that he did
>WE can do also, and
>Greater works as well.

Are you saying that man can forgive sins?

>>Meshikha isn't the perfect mediator because
>>of what he did -
>>but because of who he
>>is
. (Philippians 2:6-11)

>
>Who he is, is definitely part
>of the requirement. But
>"what he did" had to
>be a prerequisite as well,
>for had he chose to
>disobey even one time, then
>he would have been disqualified,
>just as the first Adam
>was.

Of course His humanity was subject to the same sinful temptations that we are subject to. The fact that He did not sin is not a credit to the willpower of His humanity, but of the Qnoma of Divinity that was united in His Person to that humanity.

>>His humanity (human kyana) was tempted,
>>of course, just like us.
>>His humanity is no
>>different than ours, except in
>>sin. His humanity did
>>not sin.
>>
>>His divine nature was preserved in
>>it's own Qnoma. It
>>was not tempted, did not
>>suffer on the Cross, did
>>not die.

>
>We do not sin either in
>our "new man", only in
>our "old man".

We sin constantly every day, "old man" or "new."

>

1John 1:8
>If we say that we have
>no sin, we deceive ourselves,
>and the truth is not
>in us.

Absolutely!

>1John 3:8
>Whosoever is born of God doth
>not commit sin; for his
>seed remaineth in him: and
>he cannot sin, because he
>is born of God.


>
>We sin in our "flesh" but
>cannot sin in our holy
>spirit or "new man".

We don't have a "holy spirit" apart from the 3rd Qnoma of God. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit (God) in believers is our promise from Meshikha and He is our guidance.

But, as you said - we always sin - and Meshikha did not.

I know what you're trying to get at though - that Meshikha is a man that simply had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That couldn't be further from the truth.

>
>>We cannot, and are not even
>>able to, follow the
>>path He did.

>
>Again, what about John 14:12?
>

John14:12
>Verily, verily, I say unto you,
>He that believeth on me,
>the works that I do
>shall he do also; and
>greater works than these shall
>he do; because I go
>unto my Father.

Why are you bringing up a totally irrelevant passage? Meshikha is saying that his followers would be able to perform miracles through the power of God - not that they would be able to forgive sins as only God can.

You're implying that Meshikha is a mere man like us. That's only half true. He's also complete God (as He is complete man.)

No other human being ever had those qualifications - nor ever will.

God has used others to perform miracles. But Moses did not make water come out of the rock - God did.

But the miracles that Meshikha did, he did of His own power and authority. Not that His human Qnoma was responsible for raising the dead or forgiving sins - that was His Divine Qnoma.

>
>>In science, yes.
>>In theology, no. "Between"
>>in Aramaic, and in English,
>>can carry a much broader
>>and more mystical meaning than
>>simply physics.

>
>I can't believe that you are
>actually saying this. I
>must be reading this wrong.

What I'm saying is that we're not talking about space and time. Meshikha isn't literally hanging in between God and humanity.

What I'm saying is that the Parsopa of Meshikha is "between" God and man. But that's at the Parsopa level and no one denies that. At the Qnoma level, He is both God and man. His human Qnoma was taken from the Virgin Mary and united to His divine Qnoma.

Read and re-read Philippians 2:6-11.

>>No - we don't have nor
>>will we ever have divine
>>kyana.
>>
>>Don't confuse the indwelling of the
>>Holy Spirit in believers with
>>having "divine kyana." We
>>only have fellowship with God
>>- we can never be
>>God.

>
>That is my point. We can
>never be God. BUT
>the gift of holy spirit
>is God in Christ IN
>US.

I would word that to say that the gift of the Holy Spirit IS GOD in us, as Christ was God with us ("Emmanuel.")

>God is in
>us just like God was
>in Christ.

No - we have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit which is one Qnoma of the divine Kyana. He is God "indwelling" in us.

Meshikha did not have God "indwelling" in Him. Meshikha is God in His own divine Qnoma, united with His human Qnoma in one Parsopa.

Please read Philippians 2:6-11 again.

>Certainly that
>is a divine nature.

But you miss the proper scriptural formula.

>God raised Christ from the
>dead and he is in
>his NEW body, a spiritual
>body.

Meshikha raised His human Qnoma from the dead (John 2:19), being God HIMSELF in His divine Qnoma (the 2nd Qnoma of the divine Kyana.) (Philippians 2:6-11, John 1:1)

>When we are
>raised from the dead, we
>will receive our new bodies
>also - just like the
>one he now has.

Yes - his Human Qnoma was raised with a new spiritual body just like our Human Qnoma will be raised with a new spiritual body. That has nothing to do with his Divine Qnoma which was from the beginning (Genesis 1:26, John 1:1)

>If not, then what does it
>mean when it says that
>"we shall be like him"?
>
>

1John 3:2
>Beloved, now are we the sons
>of God, and it doth
>not yet appear what we
>shall be: but we know
>that, when he shall appear,
>we shall be like him;
>for we shall see him
>as he is.

Exactly what you think it means. Our humanity will undergo a change like His did.

His Divinity did not change nor will it ever change.

>Adam was formed, made, and created
>- body, soul, and spirit.
> Body from the dust
>of the ground, soul when
>God "breathed" into him the
>breath of life, and spirit
>(holy spirit, eternal life spirit)
>which is the image of
>God.
>Soul life is
>breath-life, the life of the
>flesh, and is in the
>blood. It is spirit,
>but not "eternal life spirit".
> Therefore, it is often
>referred to as "the spirit
>of man". The "spirit
>of man" is always a
>reference to "soul life", NOT
>eternal life spirit which is
>"holy spirit". How does
>this differ from your understanding
>of soul and spirit?

Very different. Of course I'm using totally different terminology.

A "spirit" we call Rukha, which means at the simplest level "breath/wind" but at the more advanced level it means the spiritual core of our being.

A "soul" we call Napsha, it simply is a description that describes a living, breathing and rational entity.


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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