Forum Name: Assyrian Forums - Peshitta
Message URL: https://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/forums/board.cgi?az=read_count&om=897&forum=peshitta&viewmode=all

#0, To Akhi Jdrywood
Posted by Andrew Gabriel Roth on Feb-20-2002 at 04:35 AM

Shlama Akhi Jdrywood:

Let's take these one at a time shall we?

1) Do not call me "Lord" even in jest. I am a fellow brother and not an exalted teacher, which is why I am called "akh"=brother. We here have only one LORD, Yeshua Ha Moshiack. As for my "master hebrew/Aramaic skills", I don't like your tone there either, but I will accept the judgment of my peers here as to the level of my understanding and will continue undeterred by your sarcasm. You also ignore the fact that I am not the only one here who disagrees with you on virtually every point, and yet you have selected me and attempted to intimidate me by telling me you will be "gentle" with me and make a "simple" argument, presumably unless I "get out of line". I assure you such tactics cannot work on me. If you are determined to stand by what you feel is the truth, then all I ask for is the same privilege. I think that is only fair.

2) Now for Bereshit. 18:1 says YHWH appeared before Abraham. Not an angel of YHWH--YHWH Himself-- or will you say that YHWH cannot do as He has chosen and promised to do? The other two visitors though ARE ANGELS and they are sent to Sodom, (19:1). And "Peshitta OT Tenakh" (which is a redundant phrase BTW) SAYS MARYAH IN 18:1. It's just one in SEVEN THOUSAND after all.

3) You are also looking at roots that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE. "marah" means "bitter" , "mar" means "mister" or "sir" in Hebrew, or "lord" with a small l, if you will.

4) You have NOT dealt with the seven thousand references where MARYAH=YHWH. You have NOT dealt with the fact that Thomas fulfills your criteria by calling Y'shua both "master" and God (Alahi). And it seems that when the facts fail you, they are followed by false deprecation. Show me ONE PLACE where I called you "un Christian" or "stupid". I have dealt solely with facts and not resorted to name calling. The language says what it says.

5) Now I know you won't believe this, but I will try anyway. NO ONE'S THEOLOGY, NOT MINE, NOT PAUL'S AND NOT YOURS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE TEXT SAYS. I'll prove it to you. Recently there was a falling out here with a gentleman who I agreed with theologically--but guess what?-- I OPPOSED HIM LINGUISTICALLY AND TRANSLATIONALLY EVEN THOUGH HIS CONCLUSIONS FIT MY VIEWS. Why? Because he did the same thing you are doing. You are saying that because your theology is X, the text must say X even though you do not know the text. If the text says Y, then those who tell you this (ROUGHLY ALL OF US) must somehow be wrong. That sir is DIRTY POOL. I don’t care what beliefs you have. A Shiite Muslim could come here and say that, based on his frame of reference from the Koran, he disbelieves the NT. Fine. I say "Allah akbar and salaam" to him. BUT NEITHER HE NOR YOU WILL DICTATE TO US WHAT THE ARAMAIC NT SAYS SOLELY BECAUSE OF YOUR BELIEFS. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

6) If you don't believe me, listen to Paul who is a native Aramaic speaker. We are lockstep on this issue (and we disagree on very, very little and none of it is translational in nature). Again, whatever your views, keep them, but don't tell us the text can't say what we all know it does. And I join my voice to Akhi Keith and say that you need some serious prayer.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth



#1, Thanks Andrew
Posted by Keith on Feb-20-2002 at 07:43 AM

In response to message #0

Drywood,

I can assure you that Akhi Andrew and Paul each, deal with the facts pertaining to the Peshitta. On the rare occasion when they venture into speculation they are very clear about this, for that I am appreciative. I value their opinions though almost as much as I admire their knowledge and linguistic skills concering Aramaic.

My friend, no one has called you stupid. No one thinks you are less of a Christian because you don't speak in tongues. For me to think that you are less of a Christian for not speaking in tongues presupposes the idea that you are a Christian in the first place. You are not a Christian if you believe in traditional Christadelphian theology. This is not meant to be sarcastic or biting but fact. Christadelphianism is another religion apart from Christianity. We aren't talking about different sects or denominations of the Christian religion. Let me be clear, just a Mormonism is a separate religion, Christianity is a different religion, so is Christadelphianism.

Wood, if you are a Christian it is in spite of Christadelphianism not because of it. Listen to my brothers in the Messiah-Dean, Paul, Yakov, Andrew, Gabor, Larry, et al- they have wisdom in the Lord and truth. Jesus is the truth and He is waiting for you. Come on in.

In Christ,
Keith


#2, RE: Thanks Andrew
Posted by Biga on Feb-20-2002 at 10:07 AM

In response to message #1

Well said, akhay!

We can pray and explan, nothing more Only with peace.

Dear Drywood,

please note this smoking gun! :c

Luk. 11.49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

Mat. 23.34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

10000 dollars question: Who can send prophets?

I believe our God, our Lord, Jesus Christ.


cheers,
Gabor



#3, RE: Thanks Andrew
Posted by jdrywood on Feb-20-2002 at 11:19 PM

In response to message #2


Hey guys,
see my reply to Iakov's post 'doubting thomas said it'. Oh Andrew I understand you believe in mother God and nazarene Kabala-ism Oh Dear me, a 1st century Gnostic convert.
bye all jdrywood


#4, RE: Thanks Andrew
Posted by Paul Younan on Feb-20-2002 at 11:33 PM

In response to message #3

John, please calm down with the sarcasm towards Andrew. He's been nothing but cordial with you in spite of a very nasty tone on your part.

If you don't control your sarcastic and offensive tendencies in future posts - be forewarned that you may type your messages in vain.

While Andrew is a moderator of the forum - I won't wait for him to hit the delete button.

I know you are being ganged-up on on this forum because of your views - but no one here has attacked you personally.

Argue the merits of the opinions themselves and refrain from personal jabs.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

https://www.peshitta.org";>Peshitta.org


#5, RE: Thanks Andrew
Posted by Andrew Gabriel Roth on Feb-21-2002 at 04:26 AM

In response to message #3

AKhi JDrywood:
You don't know me, but I can assure you I am no Gnostic. You are very close to committing lashon hara. If you don't know what that is, I suggest you look it up along with MARYAH.

I don't know what your problem is, but you will not draw me into a name-calling match. You seem to take what I say personally when I am simply agreeing with everyone else. I may be forceful and passionate, but I have not attacked you. Paul and Iakov have actually been far more vocal in their opposition but for some reason you have put labels in my mouth that I have never said. Shall I begin to suspect that you have a problem with my ethnicity????

We all exist here in respect in peace, if not in complete agreement. If you can learn to do the same you are welcome here still. If you cannot, I wish you well in your future endeavors, but you will not spread intolerance on this forum.

Ken?

And finally, if this is your way of trying to prove a point, you have failed. Your continued hostility to me only showcases your lack of facts and understanding. Obviously you cannot separate positions from people. Obviously when the facts fail, you resort to anger. All the anger and insults in the world will not change what the text says. You can curse me until doomsday, but MARYAH will only mean YHWH, and if you don't believe me, ask Paul.

I think you may need to think about an apology or get off this forum. I hope though that you will stay, because I am interested in learning of other views even though I disagree with them. That's why this is an open forum in the first place.

Shlama w'burkate (Peace and blessings)
Andrew Gabriel Roth


#6, Yo Practico Mi Espanol.
Posted by BarKhela on Feb-21-2002 at 07:33 AM

In response to message #5

Bienviendos,

A Andrew...

Quiero practicar mi Esponol en el computadora entonces puedo estoy un estudiante bueno en esto lingua.

Por favor Andrew, no te puedes estas enojarse con Jdrywood porque mi amigo Andrew (tu) es mejor que el in esto lingue. Salvas el peleo para a alguien mejor que tu en (Aramaic), entonces puedes te ayudes. Yo veo cuando Gaoldul enojao tu.

Tu, mi hermano, son un campeon a mi (entonces es Paul).

P.S.- Sorry for the missing accent marks (and the numerous mistakes).


#7, RE: Yo Practico Mi Espanol.
Posted by Andrew Gabriel Roth on Feb-21-2002 at 07:53 AM

In response to message #6

>Bienviendos,

AND WELCOME TO YOU TO AKHI BAR KHELA
>
>A Andrew...
>
>Quiero practicar mi Esponol en el
>computadora entonces puedo estoy un
>estudiante bueno en esto lingua.

PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. I UNDERSTAND THIS PART VERY WELL.
>
>
>Por favor Andrew, no te puedes
>estas enojarse con Jdrywood porque
>mi amigo Andrew (tu) es
>mejor que el in esto
>lingue. Salvas el peleo para
>a alguien mejor que tu
>en (Aramaic), entonces puedes te
>ayudes. Yo veo cuando Gaoldul
>enojao tu.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR FRIENDSHIP, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT AND YOUR SUPPORT. OF COURSE I WILL TRY TO HELP WHERE I CAN. NOT SURE ABOUT YOUR LAST LINE THOUGH--YOU SEE, OR WILL SEE, WHEN GAOLDUL--AGREES--WITH ME?
>
>Tu, mi hermano, son un campeon
>a mi (entonces es Paul).

AND YOU ARE MINE, AS WE ARE ALL ONE'S BROTHERS HERE. LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL IN ANY LANGUAGE, AND I THINK MAYBE JDRYWOOD SHOULD READ 1 CORINTHIANS 13:1-13 AGAIN EVEN IN KJV AND SEE HOW HE FEELS ABOUT WHAT HE HAS DONE HERE.

MUCHOS GRACIAS.
PAX Y FELICITATIONES (I'M RUSTY TOO)
ANDRES
>
>
>P.S.- Sorry for the missing accent
>marks (and the numerous mistakes).

YOU AND ME BOTH! I'VE BEEN OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL FOR JUST A LITTLE WHILE!
>



#8, Bravo! :)
Posted by jaza on Mar-20-2002 at 05:51 PM

In response to message #6

Dear Bar Khela,

<<Quiero practicar mi Esponol en el computadora entonces puedo estoy un estudiante bueno en esto lingua.>>
This gives me a chance to try to do what I thought was amazing when I first read about the idea of a "MIRROR TRANSLATION" from the Greek back into the Aramaic, which in the beginning I thought was the point in having an Aramaic New Testament. (I.e., before I found out that the Peshitta actually existed)

I thought that by retranslating -looking for the Aramaic words for the Greek Gospels, would bring out new light (via hidden idiomatic expressions, etc) into the teachings of Our Lord.

This is what I mean: I will try to translate your 'literal' (computer-like) translation back into the English, after changing some words (for your benefit, not as a show off)in the Spanish.

I want to practice my Spanish in the computer, so I can be a good student in (of) this language.

Quiero practicar mi Español en LA computadora, para poder SER un BUEN estudiante en ESTA LENGUA.

<<Por favor Andrew, no te puedes estas enojarse con Jdrywood porque mi amigo Andrew (tu) es mejor que el in esto lingue. Salvas el peleo para a alguien mejor que tu en (Aramaic), entonces puedes te ayudes. Yo veo cuando Gaoldul enojao tu.>>

Please Andrew, don't get mad at JDrywood, because my friend Andrew (you) are better than he is at this language. Save the fight for someone better than you in the Aramaic, then you will be of help (?). I see why Gaoldul made you angry.


Por favor Andrew, no te enojes con JDrywood porque mi amigo Andrew (tu) ERES mejor que el en ESTA lengua. GUARDA LA pelea para alguien mejor que tu en ARAMEO, entonces podrás ser de ayuda. YA veo PORQUE Gaoldul te hizo enojar.


<<Tu, mi hermano, son un campeon a mi (entonces es Paul).>>

You, my brother, are a champion for me (As is Paul)

Tu, mi hermano, ERES un campeon PARA mi (Como lo es Paul).

Please, correct my "mirror translation".

Regards,
jaza


#9, RE: Bravo! :)
Posted by BarKhela on Mar-21-2002 at 06:27 AM

In response to message #8

>Dear Bar Khela,
>
><<Quiero practicar mi Esponol en el computadora entonces puedo estoy un estudiante bueno en esto lingua.>>
>This gives me a chance to
>try to do what I
>thought was amazing when I
>first read about the idea
>of a "MIRROR TRANSLATION"
>from the Greek back into
>the Aramaic, which in
>the beginning I thought was
>the point in having an
>Aramaic New Testament. (I.e., before
>I found out that the
>Peshitta actually existed)
>
>I thought that by retranslating
>-looking for the Aramaic words
>for the Greek Gospels, would
>bring out new light (via
>hidden idiomatic expressions, etc) into
>the teachings of Our Lord.
>
>
>This is what I mean:
>I will try to translate
>your 'literal' (computer-like) translation back
>into the English, after changing
>some words (for your benefit,
>not as a show off)in
>the Spanish.
>
>I want to practice my Spanish
>in the computer, so I
>can be a good student
>in (of) this language.
>
>Quiero practicar mi Español en LA
>computadora, para poder SER un
>BUEN estudiante en ESTA LENGUA.
>
>
><<Por favor Andrew, no te puedes estas enojarse con Jdrywood porque mi amigo Andrew (tu) es mejor que el in esto lingue. Salvas el peleo para a alguien mejor que tu en (Aramaic), entonces puedes te ayudes. Yo veo cuando Gaoldul enojao tu.>>
>
>Please Andrew, don't get mad at
>JDrywood, because my friend Andrew
>(you) are better than he
>is at this language. Save
>the fight for someone better
>than you in the Aramaic,
>then you will be of
>help (?). I see
> why Gaoldul made you
>angry.
>
>
>Por favor Andrew, no te enojes
>con JDrywood porque mi amigo
>Andrew (tu) ERES mejor que
>el en ESTA lengua.
>GUARDA LA pelea para alguien
>mejor que tu en ARAMEO,
>entonces podrás ser de ayuda.
> YA veo PORQUE Gaoldul
>te hizo enojar.
>
>
><<Tu, mi hermano, son un campeon a mi (entonces es Paul).>>
>
>You, my brother, are a champion
>for me (As is Paul)
>
>
>Tu, mi hermano, ERES un campeon
>PARA mi (Como lo es
>Paul).
>
>Please, correct my "mirror translation".
>
>Regards,
>jaza


Jaza, your translation of the cryptic note I sent to Andrew is perfecto. Again, I want to apologize because I did not have the knowledge of creating accent markings on the letters. An accent can change the whole meaning of the word.

For example, (El) means "the" and El (with the accent on the E) means "he."

Another thing, thank you for correcting my Spanish...