Forum Name: Assyrian Forums - Peshitta
Message URL: https://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/forums/board.cgi?az=read_count&om=980&forum=peshitta&viewmode=all

#0, Help Wanted!
Posted by Rob on Mar-17-2002 at 05:22 AM

Shlama Akhi Paul!

I would greatly appreciate your assistance!

!!!;l tvlaw yl wy

Could you please help me to understand the use and grammar of Jwxnd in Rom. 10:1 vs. its use in 1 Tim. 3:12?

(Also, I was wondering if you would consider adding a 'quick window' of the Aramaic keyboard map up above the posting box - alongside the 'emotions icon guide' and 'HTML Ref. Guide' links) The only way I know how to view it now is to leave the posting window and go to 'Software Req.' etc...

Muchos gracias!
Br


#1, RE: Help Wanted!
Posted by Paul Younan on Mar-18-2002 at 10:13 PM

In response to message #0

Shlama Akhi Rob,

No Prob.

>
>Could you please help me to
>understand the use and grammar
>of Jwxnd
>in Rom. 10:1 vs. its
>use in 1 Tim. 3:12?

Sure. But I think you mean 2 Timothy 3:12.

Romans 10:1

In Romans 10:1, Jwxnd is broken down as Jwxn d

The red Daleth d is a Proclitic meaning "that..." or "so...." or "for...."

The Jwxn portion is the Imperfect tense of the PEAL from the root 0yx with a 3rd-Person plural suffix and means "their salvation".

The Aramaic root 0yx , like its Hebrew cognate, literally means "life" - and in Aramaic it figuratively means "salvation."

2 Timothy 3:12

Here the Jwxnd is broken down the exact same way as Romans 10:1 - Jwxn d

Except here the Proclitic is understood as "to" and the rest is understood as "live" (3rd Person plural.) The Aramaic reads: "All those who desire by the fear of God to live in Eshoa the Messiah will be persecuted."


>
>
>(Also, I was wondering if you
>would consider adding a 'quick
>window' of the Aramaic keyboard
>map up above the posting
>box - alongside the 'emotions
>icon guide' and 'HTML Ref.
>Guide' links) The only way
>I know how to view
>it now is to leave
>the posting window and go
>to 'Software Req.' etc...
>
>Muchos gracias!

That's a great idea. I'll ask the webmaster of this forum to do that.


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

https://www.peshitta.org";>Peshitta.org


#2, Thanks!
Posted by Rob on Mar-18-2002 at 01:10 AM

In response to message #1

Shlama Akhi Paul, thank you.


>The Jwxn portion
>is the Imperfect tense of
>the PEAL from the root
>0yx with
>a 3rd-Person plural suffix and
>means "their salvation".

I don't understand. If it is a verb, wouldn't it be best to translate as such? How about, 'that He might save them'?
Or, how about taking it as a simple 3 pers masc. plural 'that they might live', instead?


>The Aramaic root >size="5"]0yx , like its Hebrew
>cognate, literally means "life" -
>and in Aramaic it figuratively
>means "salvation."

This is an important point. In GNT, we find different verbs fot 'to live' and 'to save', but in Peshitta, the same root is used.

Is 'savior' then, an Aphel participle of the same root? In Hebrew, we have (ywm as a hiphil participle.

Thanks again,
Rob


#3, RE: Thanks!
Posted by Paul Younan on Mar-19-2002 at 01:27 AM

In response to message #2

Shlama Akhi Rob,

>I don't understand. If it is
>a verb, wouldn't it be
>best to translate as such?
>How about, 'that He might
>save them'?
>Or, how about taking it as
>a simple 3 pers masc.
>plural 'that they might live',
>instead?

'That they might live' would be an excellent literal translation.

This is one of the problems facing any translation effort - while that's an excellent literal translation, it's kinda awkward in English. (I would translate it that way in the Interlinear, but as you can tell the Interlinear is not very English-friendly.)

In Semitic languages, most phrases tend to be verbal in nature, even though something like 'their salvation' is meant.

>>The Aramaic root >>size="5"]0yx , like its Hebrew
>>cognate, literally means "life" -
>>and in Aramaic it figuratively
>>means "salvation."
>
>This is an important point. In
>GNT, we find different verbs
>fot 'to live' and 'to
>save', but in Peshitta, the
>same root is used.

Yes. Absolutely.

>
>Is 'savior' then, an Aphel participle of the same root? In Hebrew, we have (ywm as a hiphil participle.
>
>Thanks again,
>Rob

Absolutely. See word number 7000 (drawn from same root - Khayya, 'life').


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

https://www.peshitta.org";>Peshitta.org