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Today's styled Chaldeans are not related to ancient Chaldean...

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Fred Aprimmoderator

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Today's styled Chaldeans are not related to ancient Chaldeans.

Aug-25-2001 at 11:47 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Last edited by Fred Aprim on Oct-03-2001 at 03:05 PM (CT)

The ancient Chaldeans never settled in Assyria, they always lived in southern Mesopotamia. Here are some historical data attesting to this fact.

1. The Conquest of Civilization / James Henry Breasted
The Chaldeans, or Kaldi, the desert tribe from the land of the southwest Persia, began to creep slowly around the heads of the Persian Gulf and settling along its shores at the foot of the eastern mountains. In 604 BC, Nebuchadnezzar II, the greatest of the Chaldean emperors, began his reign of over 40 years over Babylonia and it was in 616 BC that he had mastered his control over the entire Babylonia region. When the Medes, in 614 BC marched down the Tigris and captured Assur, Nebuchadnezzar II arrived too late to share in the assault. He did establish an alliance with Cyaxares, the Median king, and together they attacked Nineveh but the Medes were left in possession of the northern mountains of Assyria.
2. Arbil and its Historical Periods / Dr. Zubair Bilal Ismael
Arbil fell to the Medes. Asia Minor and the Assyrian Empire was split between the Medes and the Babylonians, the Medes took the upper parts of Mesopotamia, including the Land of Ashur and the Babylonians controlled the southern parts of Bet Nahrain, Syria and Palestine...
(Translated from Arabic by the author of this article)
3. Ancient Iraq / Georges Roux
The author attest to the fact that the Babylonians (at this time ruled under the Chaldean kings) did not live in Assyria, he wrote after Nineveh fell;
The Babylonians remained in full possession of Assyria, but did not occupy it and made no attempt to repair the damage they had caused. All their efforts were devoted to the religious and cultural revival of southern Mesopotamia, and in the field of foreign policy to the protection of the Taurus frontier and the subjection of Syria-Palestine.
He continues to refer to southern Mesopotamia as Babylonia even after the Chaldean dynasty took control over it and he calls its kings The Chaldean kings of Babylon and not Chaldea. A good reason could be because the Chaldeans control over Babylonia was one of the shortest of any other dynasty.
4. The Babylonians / H.W.F Saggs
the Chaldeans as originally encountered were restricted to south Babylonia, and always remained predominant there
Later he says:
there is no hint of any non-Semitic linguistic background, but this does not preclude the possibility that their ancestry included elements from earlier groups who had ruled the south of the country, or from the Kassites. Some scholars suggest that they were originally of east Arabian origin; there is little positive evidence for this, but it is not impossible, and if they came in via the west coast of the Persian Gulf it might explain why they were in the main only in the south of Mesopotamia.
5. Kinooz al-Matthaf al-Iraqi (The Treasures of the Iraqi Museum) / Dr. Faraj Basmachi
Key Akhsar controlled the north eastern parts of Land of Ashur, while Nebuchadnezzar controlled the southern parts.
6A. Mesopotamia and Iran in the Persian Period / John Curtis
So, when Cyrus entered the city in the autumn of 539 BC, he was greeted by the people as a liberator rather than as a conqueror. In spring 539 the Persian Army had started to move down the Diyala valley and in August of the same year there was a battle at Opis on the Tigris. On 10 October Sippar surrendered and Nabonidus fled to Babylon. Two days later the Persian army entered Babylon and Nabonidus was taken prisoner.
What can we learn from this paragraph: In spring 539 the Persian Army had started to move down the Diyala valley and in August of the same year there was a battle at Opis on the Tigris? This paragraph is very important, because it attests to the fact that the Persians were in control in Assyria (northern Mesopotamia) after the fall of Nineveh in 612 BC. For those who are not familiar with the geography of Iraq, Diyala valley is basically between Assyria and Babylonia. So this proves that there were no Chaldeans in Assyria for the Persians to fight, rather the Persians moved south the Diyala valley to meet Nabonidus.
6B. Mesopotamia and Iran in the Persian Period / John Curtis: The author wrote:It is even unclear which of the two victorious powers, the Medes or the Babylonians, now controlled the area . A few years ago I argued (1989: 52-4) that the probable boundary between the two spheres of influence ran along the Lesser Zab and up the River Tigris, with the Babylonians controlling the area to the south and west and the Medes the area to the north and east, and at the moment I see no cogent for changing this view. This would mean that most of the Assyrian heartland was, for some of the time at least, nominally under Median control.
7. Assyrian Studies; A History Bypassed by History / Georgis Fatih Allah
Around this date, 605 BC the Assyrian Empire was divided between the two allies (the Medes and the Babylonians). It seems that the original Land of Ashur became the Medes king share.
8. The Ancient Near East; c. 3000-330 BC / Amelie Kuhrt
By 605 the larger part of the Assyrian empire was in the hands of a new Babylonian dynasty with its political center in southern Mesopotamia, while the eastern fringes and, eventually, the territory to the north, formed part of a new confederation controlled by the Medes, centered on Ecbatana (modern Hamadan) in western Iran.

Todays Chaldeans, therefore, who live predominantly in Mosul (Nineveh) and its environ, are not related under any way or shape to the ancient Chaldeans of southern Mesopotamia. This is true since there is not any documented mass migration of the ancient Chaldeans to Nineveh, and if there were any prisoners taken to Assyria, then they assimilated to Assyrian society like the other prisoners taken throughout the centuries.
Pope Pius VIII simply confirmed the Patriarch of the Nestorian Assyrians in Alqosh, Mosul, as the Patriarch of the Chaldeans in July 5, 1830, to give it a historical weight. In addition, the Pope needed to be in concert with the earlier action of the Vatican when Pope Eugene IV called the Nestorians of Cyprus who became Catholic as Chaldeans in August 7, 1445.

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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