A Question About Steven Ring

Shlama all--

I was just going over this great article by Mr. Ring that Akhi Paul posted and it occurred to me:

I don't know who he is! Has he published this and if so, what is the scholarly response? I would love to use his eveidence in my research as well.

There was also something he mentioned that I have been thinking about for some time: Proper names.

I have not been able to put my finger on it, but two names always seem to whisper clues to me that I can't quite make out.

The first of these is: Yochanan bar Zawdee.

I can't get past the fact that "Zawdee" is spelled with a beyt (which can be a "b" or "w" sound), and is pronounced as a "w" in the Peshitta (which is the dialect of Meshikha)but is rendered with a "b" in Greek AND an extra syllable because Aramaic had no vowels.

Shouldn't the Greek have rendered it with a dipthong "au"-- "Zau-dee"?

The second one is "Lazar".

This name begins as the Hebrew "Eliezer", but in Aramaic ayins tend to be dropped and so it becomes, 'LAZAR, and the Greeks of course can't resist making it more hellenistic with LAZAR'OS.

I could use the help honestly as I am not sure if this is significant evidence or not, but either way, at least I can put it to rest in my head.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Akhi Andrew,

Mr. Ring is a student and researcher of Aramaic, I believe at Cambridge or Oxford University, and is a good friend of Fr. Klutz (my Priest here in Chicago).

I haven't heard much about any scholarly reviews of his theory. I do know that his area of expertise seems to be the reconstruction of the Galilean Aramaic idiom of Eshoo's time.

I have conversed with him via email a few times, and he has posted on this forum previously.

In regard to the Greek redaction of Aramaic pronunciation, it seems to vary from book to book and writer to writer. True, the Greek should have rendered it with a dipthong, but given that they were translating from Aramaic written sources, and probablu without too much help in regards to oral tradition (or even conflicting oral traditions), they could have easily substituted Zebedee for Zawdee.

Lazar is definetely originally pronounced in the Hebrew original state as (lzr, and Aramaic has dropped the initial Ayin, and therefore it has come through Aramaic to the Greek - Lazaros.

Theses examples are surely of significance when examining the evolution of the various manuscript traditions.

Perhaps Mr. Ring will be reading this message and provide some more valuable insight.

Shlama w'Burkate,
Paul

>Shlama all--
>
>I was just going over this
>great article by Mr. Ring
>that Akhi Paul posted and
>it occurred to me:
>
>I don't know who he is!
> Has he published this
>and if so, what is
>the scholarly response? I
>would love to use his
>eveidence in my research as
>well.
>
>There was also something he mentioned
>that I have been thinking
>about for some time:
>Proper names.
>
>I have not been able to
>put my finger on it,
>but two names always seem
>to whisper clues to me
>that I can't quite make
>out.
>
>The first of these is:
>Yochanan bar Zawdee.
>
>I can't get past the fact
>that "Zawdee" is spelled with
>a beyt (which can be
>a "b" or "w" sound),
>and is pronounced as a
>"w" in the Peshitta (which
>is the dialect of Meshikha)but
>is rendered with a "b"
>in Greek AND an extra
>syllable because Aramaic had no
>vowels.
>
>Shouldn't the Greek have rendered it
>with a dipthong "au"-- "Zau-dee"?
>
>
>The second one is "Lazar".
>
>This name begins as the Hebrew
>"Eliezer", but in Aramaic ayins
>tend to be dropped and
>so it becomes, 'LAZAR, and
>the Greeks of course can't
>resist making it more hellenistic
>with LAZAR'OS.
>
>I could use the help honestly
>as I am not sure
>if this is significant evidence
>or not, but either way,
>at least I can put
>it to rest in my
>head.
>
>Shlama w'burkate
>Andrew Gabriel Roth