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Church of the East:

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Samuel
 
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Church of the East:

Apr-18-2001 at 10:40 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Akhi Paul:
I am possabally going to write a 12 page paper on a study of the Assyrian Church community for credit in School, how would I go about getting the religious and cultural information needed? I need to know how the COE functions between members in the United States as well as in other contries, not just the Bible version they use and their liturgy. Does your group have regualr Bible study meetings at church and a men's and women's fellowship? what are some of the major difficulties in your religion and every day life that you face as a result of being in the disapora of your peopel due to modern day persecution and the daily difficulties adjusting to a new contry? Shlama W'Berkhate, Sam

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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1. RE: Church of the East:

Apr-18-2001 at 05:17 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-2001 AT 05:17 PM (CT)

Shlama Akhi Shmuel,


">I am possabally going to write
>a 12 page paper on
>a study of the Assyrian
>Church community for credit in
>School, how would I go
>about getting the religious and
>cultural information needed?"

That's great - I'd be glad to help in any manner I can. Just ask the questions here.

">I need
>to know how the COE
>functions between members in the
>United States as well as
>in other contries, not just
>the Bible version they use
>and their liturgy. Does
>your group have regualr Bible
>study meetings at church and
>a men's and women's fellowship?

It varies from parish to parish, but generally yes. Bible studies are typically held on Wednesday or Friday nights.

There are some parishes which have fellowships and the like.

A big part of church life is also the schooling the children recieve in the faith, language, etc.

">what are some of the
>major difficulties in your religion
>and every day life that
>you face as a result
>of being in the disapora
>of your peopel due to
>modern day persecution and the
>daily difficulties adjusting to a
>new contry?"

Well, one instance I can think of which has caused major havoc in our Church life is the Western/Eastern calendar issues, and the various holy day celebrations which are different between the two.

When we first arrived in the West, the Patriarch issued an order to switch our calendar to the Gregorian from the Julian. This caused a rift in our church, where we know have a rival Patriarch in Baghdad who only recognizes the Old Calendar, not the new one.

Other issues center around the misunderstanding of theological issues stemming from Ephesus.

Difficulties specifically related to the Diaspora include the fact that, without our homeland, our language and customs are dying.

Many of my people are inter-marrying, which further diminishes our numbers. Children resulting from these marriages (I'm married to a German/Irish girl, myself) typically are not brought up in the culture and do not learn the language.

Other difficulties include what we call "Americanization", or the (comparatively) liberal social structure in the West, compared to the social structure in the (mainly) Muslim East.

That's about all I can think of now. If you have more specific questions, let me know. In the meantime, you can obtain more specific information by visiting the following links:

https://www.atour.com
https://www.aina.org
https://www.bethsuryoyo.com
https://www.edessa.com

...these should contain some useful information about cultural issues.

Hope this helped!


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Samuel
 
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2. RE: Church of the East:

Apr-18-2001 at 02:31 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Akhi Paul:
Thanks , that is some help. I will try to find out more from the sources you sugested. there is outside information, but it is of less value than direct information from COE its self, being the source of this independent study. I have a book by Nelson entitled the New Christian dictionary and it says that the assyrian Church is not nor ever was Nestorian and that they believe in the trinity just like the west, is that true? Are there a lot of celebrate clergy in the COEganization especially here in the states? How do your people respond to the preservation of your language and culture in a nation where Aramaic is uhnherd of and all the children are basically instructed in English alone? What is your wife's feelings about your culture and the children you both have learning Aramaic and their Assyrian roots like music, foods, literture,and ect.? Are there many people in the priesthood in the COE and is the interest still alive? How many of your people through intermarriage have given up their culture and gave into the presure of joining other churches western as opposed to their own and what problems does this cause effect? Shlama W'Berkhate,Samuel

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3. RE: Church of the East:

Apr-19-2001 at 10:46 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
Shlama Akhi,

">I have a book
>by Nelson entitled the New
>Christian dictionary and it says
>that the assyrian Church is
>not nor ever was Nestorian
>and that they believe in
>the trinity just like the
>west, is that true?

Those are 2 different issues - but yes, that is true.

The CoE has always been a 'trinitarian' Church.
It has never been a 'Nestorian' Church, not even Nestorius was a 'Nestorian' (in the classical sense of the term.)


>Are
>there a lot of celebrate
>clergy in the COEganization especially
>here in the states?

Our priests are not celebate, unless they chose to be. Some do, but the vast majority are married. It's their personal choice.

Usually, Bishops and Patriarchs are selected from celibate priests, but that has not always been enforced. We have had married bishops and even married Patriarchs.


>How
>do your people respond to
>the preservation of your language
>and culture in a nation
>where Aramaic is uhnherd of
>and all the children are
>basically instructed in English alone?

Basically, this has been handled by the Church - which offers schooling for our children, much in the same way our brethren the Jews have preserved their language and culture within the Synagogue setting (and Yeshivas.)

Usually, English is forbidden in the home, where only Aramaic is allowed. We were constantly told to speak (Assyrian) Aramaic by parents, relatives, clergy, etc.

I was born in the U.S., but did not speak a word of English until I started school. This helped me in learning both languages fluently.

We are trying to open up independent schools now, with some success in Iraq and in Australia.


>What is your wife's feelings
>about your culture and the
>children you both have learning
>Aramaic and their Assyrian roots
>like music, foods, literture,and ect.?

I am fortunate that my wife is more interested in the language and culture than I am!

She speaks Aramaic (somewhat) fluently, and she can read/write it (Estrangelo and Swadaya scripts).

She plans to teach our children both languages side-by-side.

>Are there many people in
>the priesthood in the COE
>and is the interest still
>alive?

Yes, there are currently no shortage of priests here in the west, although in the east (depending on which country) we are very persecuted, and the various governments have strong restrictions on building of churches, ordination of priests, etc.

>How many of your
>people through intermarriage have given
>up their culture and gave
>into the presure of joining
>other churches western as opposed
>to their own and what
>problems does this cause effect?

Too many.

One thing that can be said about persecution - it tends to preserve and to make the people stick together more.

As more and more of our people are driven from their homelands and finding freedom and economic benefits in the west, they tend to lose touch with their community, language and their customs.

Mar Dinkha, our Patriarch, has said many times that the "Great Melting Pot" is at the same time our saviour and our greatest threat.


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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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