Biga
    Member: Posts: 193 Member Feedback |
Oct-09-2001 at 12:40 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
Hello dear All, Meanwhile reading the translation of James about Simon as jar merchant I think it could be useful to clear this verse. I would like only share what I found in this topic, I hope the local experts can help. I searched the Lexicon and found that the leper, "garba" has only this meaning, but is is doubtless, the word jar, "graba" has very similar form. (as James wrote in his topic) But where is the word "merchant"? Because the words potter, thrower has totally another form as "jar", "leper". I tried talk with James about this verse remarking that the argue of James, that an alabaster box was found in his house, can not be accepted, because the woman owned this box. The Holman dictionary suggests that the "leprosy" was a general word to refer some another skin diseases. The phisicians could contradistinguish the most skin diseases, at least between harmful ones and the dangerous ones. If anyone interested in, the Dictionary refers to some passage where the leprosy can mean another skin disease. If we analyse the greek word, lepros (3015): 1. scaly, rough 2. leprous, affected with leprosy So in my opinion the greek word maybe can mean also another skin diseases not only leprosy, not so dangerous what need total separation from the city. It could be just a nickname too. Many people suggest that Simon was identical to Lazarus who lived also in Bethany. Interesting, the word "lazar" can also mean leper, at least my hungarian-english dictionary contains this meaning. with Love, Gabor
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Oct-11-2001 at 12:10 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #0
Shlama Akhi Gabor, If you check the "Compendious Syriac Dictionary" by Payne-Margouliath, you will see an entry there for "Garaba" that means "Potter, Jar-Maker" or something like that meaning. I'll try to scan the pages in soon and show you. I agree here with James that the best translation is "Potter/Jar-Maker" and not "Leper." Fk^rwbw 0ml4
Peshitta.org
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Biga
    Member: Posts: 193 Member Feedback |
Oct-15-2001 at 09:32 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #1
Thank you, Akhi Paul, you should not copy it, I belive you  Can we find more references to this word in the Pesitta where it means potter too?
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Oct-16-2001 at 11:40 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #2
Last edited by Paul Younan on Oct-16-2001 at 11:49 AM (CT) Shlama Akhi Gabor, There is no other reference to this word in the Peshitta using this context (potter) except for the indirect reference to "jar/skin of water" in Luke 22:10 - where, incidentally, there is a wordplay between 0rbg (man) and 0brg (jar.) Keep in mind - there is no place in the Peshitta that has the words "cat, cow" or "concordance" , either. But they definitely exist in Aramaic. The word "Garaba" is used every day by modern speakers when they want to say "potter" - which is a very ancient profession in Mesopotamia. I can't help but to think that perhaps the two words are similiar because potters worked with wet clay which must have made their arms look like they were lepers. Maybe ? Fk^rwbw 0ml4
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rdf
   Member: Member Feedback |
Feb-08-2002 at 09:25 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #1
Shlama Akhi Younan, >If you check the "Compendious Syriac >Dictionary" by Payne-Margouliath, you will >see an entry there for >"Garaba" that means "Potter, Jar-Maker" >or something like that meaning. From the statement above I want to know as follows: 1. Why did you choose the "Compendious Syriac Dictionary" than the others? and may I know how far the important of this dictionary ? 2. Is the word "Garaba" only in the Greek MSS or include in the Peshitta text? 3. What is actually the name of the manuscripts which contain the word "Garaba" ? and if you don't mind how old the manuscripts is when we compare with the oldest Greek manuscripts which contain that word. >I'll try to scan the pages >in soon and show you. > > >I agree here with James that >the best translation is "Potter/Jar-Maker" >and not "Leper." And may I know every step of analysis so you summarize the best translation is "Potter/Jar-Maker" and not "Leper"?
Thank you in advance. Alaha Natir L'oukh, Rudolf
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Biga
    Member: Posts: 193 Member Feedback |
Feb-09-2002 at 09:59 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #4
Dear akhi Rudolf, Altough I'm a very happy aramaic primacist I have doubts with this verse. I wrote earlier to James but he did not answer. I feel more real that this man was earlier leper, he was healed and become this nickname for memory. Who said this kind of nickname is impossible I can say as example the name of Bartimeus - which mean Son of the Unclean. The verse does not say also that the woman used an alabaster box in the house but said "the woman having the alabaster box" so she can bring it. cheers, Gabor
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rdf
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Feb-10-2002 at 09:40 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #5
Shlama Akhi Gabor, >Altough I'm a very happy aramaic >primacist I have doubts >with this verse. I wrote >earlier to James but he >did not answer. > >I feel more real that this >man was earlier leper, he >was healed and become this >nickname for memory. Who said >this kind of nickname is >impossible I can say as >example the name of Bartimeus >- which mean Son of >the Unclean. > >The verse does not say also >that the woman used an >alabaster box in the house >but said "the woman having >the alabaster box" so she >can bring it.
I have another assumption of the verse. We can see Mathew 10:3 "Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Matthew is always called the tax collector but it doesn't seem to me he still did the job after Maran Eshoo called him as a disiciple. Maybe?  Regards, Rudolf
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Feb-10-2002 at 09:58 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #4
Shlama Akhi Rudolf, >1. Why did you choose the >"Compendious Syriac Dictionary" than the >others? and may I know >how far the important of >this dictionary ? This is a very important dictionary and the standard work which all people use when studying this dialect of Aramaic, in particular. >2. Is the word "Garaba" only >in the Greek MSS or >include in the Peshitta text? That word, "Garaba" is Aramaic and is only in the Peshitta text and not the Greek. >And may I know every step >of analysis so you summarize >the best translation is "Potter/Jar-Maker" >and not "Leper"? It was a very simple process - it can be translated either "potter" or "leper" - but I think contextually "potter" makes more sense. It would be pretty mean-spirited to keep calling someone a "leper" even years after they'd been cleansed - don't you think? I mean - nobody went around calling Lazarus "the stiff." :P Fk^rwbw 0ml4
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Biga
    Member: Posts: 193 Member Feedback |
Feb-11-2002 at 09:15 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #7
Dear akhi Paul, "It would be pretty mean-spirited to keep calling someone a "leper" even years after they'd been cleansed - don't you think?" and what is your opinion about the name Bartimeus? You explained me, that it mean "Timi Jr" , Timi means "unclean". You think, his father was never uncleansed and he inherit this bad name? p.s. did you get my music? You can say baldly if it is not your style 
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Feb-11-2002 at 06:01 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #8
Shlama Akhi Gabor, I did get your song and I love it! It is my style, by the way. I just forgot to post it in the confused mayhem of 2 weeks ago. I'll try to get to that tonight. The issue about "Bar-Timi" - you're right, but I still think that "Leper" is a worse term because if people called him that nobody would get near him! Imagine going around calling someone "Steve the Ebola-Carrier!" Fk^rwbw 0ml4
Peshitta.org
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