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Contradictions Project

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Biga
 
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Contradictions Project

Dec-03-2001 at 02:42 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Hello dear All,

maybe in the archive I read a very informative and valuable topic about Bible contradictions. (for example about 600 gold-silver shekels) I would like resurrect it

I confess, I began my book (I'm at 180th page ) with the monstrous ambition explain the most contradictions (either guessed or real). I know, these can have different causes - translation errors, theologic misunderstandings or simply I hadn't enough biblical or historical information to unlock them.

Have you any examples which can be shared?

ps. you have free to ignore all thelogic suspected areas

my examples:

Mat. 19.26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

vs

Jdg. 1.19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

;

2Sa. 6.23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

vs

2Sa. 21.8
But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite...


;

Gen. 21.23
Now therefore swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me, nor with my son, nor with my son's son: but according to the kindness that I have done unto thee, thou shalt do unto me, and to the land wherein thou hast sojourned.
And Abraham said, I will swear.
Heb. 6.16
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

vs

Mat. 5.34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

opinions?

cheers,
Gabor

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Biga
 
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1. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-04-2001 at 09:06 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
example from NT:

(translations from Lamsa and the Pesitto translations have the same)

Act. 9.7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

vs

Act. 22.9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

Any ideas to solve this? I begin to translate with my Syriac dictionary, altough it will be last ca. one week

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Biga
 
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2. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-09-2001 at 03:43 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Opinions?

Or it was a bad idea? Do you never get the disturbing statement "The Bible can not be holy scripture, it has a lot of contradictions" ?

I would like plain answer Are these questions unimportant?

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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3. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 11:39 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Shlama Akhi Gabor,

I'm sorry I'm taking so long to answer these posts. My time is almost all spent at the hospital with my mother (she's been in serious condition since July.) Every night after work I am there visiting with her so I barely have time, other than when I'm at work, to check the posts on this forum. I have some spare time now at work so let me get to this one and thanks for your patience.

This is not a contradiction at all, but a misunderstanding of the Aramaic when the Greeks translated it.

In Aramaic the word fq ("Qala", or "Qol" in Hebrew) means both "voice" and "sound." (c.f., Mattai 20:30, Luke 1:44 for instances where it means 'sound', and Mattai 2:18, Yukhanan 1:23 where it means 'voice.') The Greeks translated both instances as "voice", erroneously.

The reading of the Aramaic of Acts 9:7 should be:

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a sound, but seeing no man.

And Acts 22:9 correctly reads:
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

In other words, the sound that they heard which is mentioned in 9:7 is not necessarily the voice of Him who was speaking to Paul. It could have been anything.

Great find of yet another example of a bad translation from the Aramaic!

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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5. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 01:15 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Dear Akhi Paul,

I'm very ashamed that I'm so impatient sometimes. Thank you for this answer (great pearl I thought exactly this kind of contradictions which can be unlocked by aramaic. I will try find new examples from the New Testament which can wait.

I wish the best to yor mother!

cheers,
Gabor

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7. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 04:51 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Dear Akhi Paul,

I'm just thinking, maybe the translation error could occur later. The word phonos (5456) mean also both voice, sound. The english has two words, but as you said the aramaic has one. (my language too). The Aramaic hasn't possibility to distinguish the two meanings with different words?

cheers,
Gabor

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4. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 12:28 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Akhi Gabor,

>
>Mat. 19.26 But Jesus beheld them,
>and said unto them, With
>men this is impossible; but
>with God all things are
>possible.

>
>vs
>
>Jdg. 1.19 And the LORD was
>with Judah
; and he drave
>out the inhabitants of the
>mountain; but could not drive
>out the inhabitants of the
>valley, because they had chariots
>of iron.

>

I see no contradiction here at all and this is a rather weak argument of those who insist there are contradictions in the bible.

Christ is saying with God all things are possible, but He didn't imply that all things you could want would happen if God was with you. Why stretch the meaning of that teaching to that extent?

Christ was talking about the ability of God to do anything - not that God would do anything and everything for you.

This is more a misunderstanding of God than anything else.

>2Sa. 6.23 Therefore Michal the daughter
>of Saul had no child

>unto the day of her
>death.
>
>vs
>
>2Sa. 21.8
>But the king took the two
>sons of Rizpah the daughter
>of Aiah, whom she bare
>unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth;
>and the five sons of
>Michal the daughter of Saul
,
>whom she brought up for
>Adriel the son of Barzillai
>the Meholathite...

My Hebrew version has "Michal" in 6:23 and "Merab" in 21:8 - so I don't see the contradiction here. "Michal" did not bear any children, "Merab" did.


>
>Gen. 21.23
>Now therefore swear unto me here
>by God
that thou wilt
>not deal falsely with me,
>nor with my son, nor
>with my son's son: but
>according to the kindness that
>I have done unto thee,
>thou shalt do unto me,
>and to the land wherein
>thou hast sojourned.
>And Abraham said, I will swear.
>
>Heb. 6.16
>For men verily swear by the
>greater: and an oath for
>confirmation is to them an
>end of all strife.

>
>vs
>
>Mat. 5.34
>But I say unto you, Swear
>not at all
; neither by
>heaven; for it is God's
>throne:
>Nor by the earth; for it
>is his footstool: neither by
>Jerusalem; for it is the
>city of the great King.
>
>Neither shalt thou swear by thy
>head
, because thou canst not
>make one hair white or
>black.
>But let your communication be, Yea,
>yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever
>is more than these cometh
>of evil.
>

This one is easy. In Aramaic the two words used are similiar but have different shades of meaning - in Matthew 5:34 the word used is Ks (which is more like "swear") and in Hebrews the word used is 0my (means any common "oath" or "contract.")

So yet another instance of bad translation from Aramaic!

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Biga
 
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6. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 03:07 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 
Wow!
This is beyond my expectations!

thanks,
Gbor

Another new unlocked structure for me
(which can wait):


Jam. 1.13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Gen. 22.1
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

Job. 2.3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

(I read anywhere that the key can be the difference between words "tempt" and "test")


thanks again,
Gabor

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8. RE: Contradictions Project

Dec-10-2001 at 04:51 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 
Akhi Paul!

I checked my hebrew text but I found Michal - mjkl in both places. Of course I checked my hungarian translations (it is typical for me, first posting a topic, after it thinking ) and I found Merab too as you referred. What is interesting, the Peshitta OT (Lamsa) has a third version:

But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of ana, whom she bore to Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Nadab the daughter of Saul....

cheers,
Gabor

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