Larry19
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Jan-16-2002 at 09:08 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
Shlama Akhi Paul, I was trying to do a study on 1st Timothy 4:1 since it addresses the times were living in so pointedly. I was curious as to why #1427 'anash' was listed twice in a row at peshito.com. Also I remember that there are 2 words for 'demon' or 'evil spirit' while the Greek only has one. You went over this a number of months ago on the forum. Are there any other nuggets that might be overlooked on this very timely verse? If this is one instance where 'our friend Zorba' and the 'King Jimmy' version do a top-notch job, then I'll move on with others that weren't so fortunate. After watching the special conference of Chuck Missler and Mark Eastman on RealOne Player at www.khouse.org my curiosity has really been aroused. Their research on New Age channelers, UFO's, and a host of other things is absolutely mind-boggling! Shlama w'Burkate, Lawrence Raymond Kelsey
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Larry19
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Jan-17-2002 at 04:37 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #0
Shlama, Here are some different renderings of this verse: "But the Spirit saith explicitly, that in the latter times, some will depart from the faith, and will go after deceptive spirits, and after the doctrine of demons." (James Murdock) "Now the Ruach haKodesh says befeirush and in no uncertain terms that in the acharit hayamim some will become meshummad (apostate) from the emunah , giving heed to deceitful ruchot (spirits) and teachings of shedim," (The Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha)"But the Spirit says expressly that in the last strategic, epochal periods of time some will depart from the Faith, giving heed to spirits that lead one into error, and to teachings of demons, doing this through the hypocrisy of liars, branded in their own conscience, forbidding to marry, commanding abstinence from foods, which things God created for those to receive with thanksgiving who are believers and who have a precise and experiential knowledge of the truth; because every created thing of God is good, and not even one thing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is consecrated through God's word and through prayer." 1st Timothy 4:1-5 (Kenneth Wuest's Expanded New Testament) Shlama w'Burkate, Lawrence Raymond Kelsey
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Jan-17-2002 at 05:22 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #1
Shlama Akhi Lawrence, The Aramaic of this verse is broken down: - 0rm0 ty0qy4p Nyd 0xwr - The Spirit (Rukh'a), now, she ('spirit' is feminine in Aramaic) expressly/literally says...
- 0yrx0 0nbzbd - That in the age (d'b'Zawna) last (Akh'ra'ya)
- $n0 $n0 Jwqrpn - <They> will abstain (ne'par'qon) some people (a'nash a'nash)
- Fwnmyh Nm - from The Faith.
- Fy9= 0xwr rtb Jwlz0nw - and go after deceiving spirits (again, feminine imagery.)
- 0d04d 0nplwy rtbw - and after the teachings of demons (She'dee) (the "crazy" sort.)
$n0 $n0 idiomatically means "some people". And you are correct, the word for demon here, 0d04 (She'dee) certainly describes a sort of "occultic" or "brain-washed" type of possession we see in those who are willing to "martyr" themselves today. (I hate using that word to describe them.) Wonderful link, by the way! I'm going to be spending some time there.... Fk^rwbw 0ml4
Peshitta.org
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howard
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Jan-18-2002 at 03:04 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #2
Shlama I was very pleased to discover for myself a few days ago that 0xwr is feminine in Aramaic, now confirmed by Akhi Paul. That was one of the major reasons I came to doubt the Greek NT's authority - because 'pneuma' is masculine, which is to me in serious basic conflict with the Hebrew. It did not make sense to me for the 'Inspiration' to pass into Greek - it was not properly prepared for it. I wonder though, why most everyone always translates into English as masculine - look at James Murdoch and John Wesley Etheridge (didn't want to 'rock the boat' back in the 1800's?) but also all (I think all) English OT's. It seems to be a cover-up! To me the imagery in Gen 1:2, and Matti 23:37, suddenly came to life when I discovered this in the Hebrew - that Ruach haKodesh is feminine, somehow. I would be very interested in what Akhi Andrew has to say about this. Maran Atha Howard Grimmer
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Jan-18-2002 at 11:26 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #3
Last edited by Paul Younan on Jan-18-2002 at 11:29 PM (CT) Shlama Akhi Howard, Check out the post in the Archives titled "Odes of Solomon", dated March 30, 2001. Ode 19 is a real eye-popper and right on this topic. Here's the link: Odes of Solomon Fk^rwbw 0ml4
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BarKhela
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Jan-19-2002 at 07:29 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #4
Greetings, Paul... 1)I don't understand Ode 19 from "The Odes of Solomon." What exactly is trying to be said in this hymn? 2) I saw what you wrote to Andrew about the Bears vs. the Eagles. I was never interested in football, but I love to wrestle. Do you wrestle any? 3)If one were to join the CoE, would he or she have to be baptized by them? Are all the services in Aramaic or are there any special services for English-speaking people only? Thanking you in advance....
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Jan-21-2002 at 12:54 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #5
Shlama Akhi bar-Khela, 1)I don't understand Ode 19 from "The Odes of Solomon." What exactly is trying to be said in this hymn? It's a poem using strong word-imagery. The Milk is our Salvation, which comes from the Father. The Son is the Cup from which we drink the Milk - and the Holy Spirit brought this Milk to us - through the Incarnation of God himself in the womb of the Virgin. 2) I saw what you wrote to Andrew about the Bears vs. the Eagles. I was never interested in football, but I love to wrestle. Do you wrestle any? Nope - you'd easily pin me. 3)If one were to join the CoE, would he or she have to be baptized by them? Yes - unless they've already been baptized with a Trinitarian formula. Are all the services in Aramaic or are there any special services for English-speaking people only? It depends on location. Some parishes are Aramaic-only and others have half Aramaic half-English services. A couple in the U.S. (Seattle area) are English-only. Most in the Middle East are Aramaic-only. All in India are a mix of Aramaic and Malayalam. Fk^rwbw 0ml4
Peshitta.org
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Iakov
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Jan-21-2002 at 04:09 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #3
Shlama Akhi Howard, >Shlama >I was very pleased to discover >for myself a few days >ago that >size="5"]0xwr is feminine in Aramaic, >now confirmed by Akhi Paul. >That was one of the >major reasons I came to >doubt the Greek NT's authority >- because 'pneuma' is masculine, Just a point of clarification about pneuma. The term is actually neuter. This is all the more interesting in that neuter is foreign to semitic languages. L'hit Ra'ot Iakov
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Iakov
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Jan-22-2002 at 10:38 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #8
Akhi Paul w'Kulkon, I've just been reading the posts and quietly enjoying the dialogue. Yes all is well. Thanks. I lost my assistant,in August, to a government employer and have been training new people since. My time has been stretched a bit thin. I have time to read and ponder but no time to research. I pray that will change by the late spring. Shlama Iakov
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howard
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Jan-22-2002 at 03:11 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #7
Shlama I apologize for making an incorrect statement, which Akhi Iakov has rightly corrected. It pays to check everything, rather than go from remote memory. Thankyou Akhi Iakov. Howard Grimmer
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Paul Younan
    Member: Jun-1-2000 Posts: 1,306 Member Feedback |
Jan-22-2002 at 03:12 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #10
Shlama Akhi Howard, I think Akhi Iakov's clarification further strengthens your original point - and he said so too.  Fk^rwbw 0ml4
Peshitta.org
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Iakov
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Jan-23-2002 at 09:56 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria) |
In reply to message #10
Shlama Akhi Howard, No need for apology. Greek is my forte if you will as I read the GNT most every day. My weak point is my Aramaic grammar (and my Arabic, according to my Lebonese friends). Paul is correct in pointing out that I was clarifying the grammar so as to affirm your statement. Neuter, 'it', common to the western mind, stands out all the more obvious in what was actually an original semitic setting, yes? Shlama Iakov
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