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Brother Roth! Check it out!...

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Larry19
 
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Brother Roth! Check it out!...

Jan-20-2002 at 03:25 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Akhi Andrew,

This book, according to the one who has prepared this page, (the address of which I'll give below),
evidently contains the Crawford Text of Revelation in its untranslated form
The book is "The Apocalypse of St. John in a Syriac Version" (actually I think some listings have "...in a Syriac Version Hitherto Unknown..")
The author is John Gwynn.
Also two books published as one together that you might find somewhat interesting concerning an Aramaic original of Revelation is "A Semitic Approach to the Text of Revelation" by James Scott Trimm. In this "2-for-1" book you get the contents of "The Original Language of the Apocalypse" by Robert B. Y. Scott and "The Language and Date of the Apocalypse" by Charles Cutler Torrey. The link is:
https://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2001/jovial74-3.htm

Shlama w'Burkate,

Lawrence Raymond Kelsey

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Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
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1. RE: Brother Roth! Check it out!...

Jan-20-2002 at 08:45 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Hi Akhi Larry:

I know Joe V. and respect him. I've seen that article before, and I'm grateful for you showing it to me once more because it was some time ago. I know Dr. Trimm published two essays on Rev, but I thought those were looking at how the Greek reads vis a vis how it could have come from an Aramaic version now lost, as opposed to saying "This mss is the original". The Peshitto version is from the Greek. No question there.

What I want to know is though--and perhaps the book you mentioned will help-- is if the Aramaic itself marks the mss as original. After that, I want to know the date of the mss and what the COLOPHON (kind of a bookmark with the year/occasion and author listed) says. If Crawford, for example, is in SERTO SCRIPT, that might put it as 5th century or later because the Syrian Orhtodox Church would have put all mss from then forward into that script--except for the headings. If the mss is in ESTRANGELA script, that may at least put it earlier, but how much earlier is an open question.

There is also the issue of acceptance by the SOC. If there was an original Crawford around circa 300 CE, why didn't they adopt it? Even Dr. Trimm says, the antiquity and circumstances of how the mss came to Europe are uncertain except that it was around just before 1861, when the Earl of Crawford bought it.

Hope this helps!

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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