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Animal sacrifices: a barbaric vestige?

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jaza
 
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Animal sacrifices: a barbaric vestige?

Jan-20-2002 at 08:45 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Akhi Paul,

I just read a piece of your reply to a post:

<<At times and places, yes, and also things like vows to the LORD, the reservation of the first-born to the service of God, and even animal sacrifices (usually lambs) as offers (Qurbane) of Thanksgiving for a particular blessing or prayer that has been answered.>>

Although the context is a general overview of traditions of your Christian Church, I would like to know your personal opinion about this issue: the use of sacrifices offered to God. From my western rational point of view, seeing that we share this 'tradition' with the most barbaric tribes, I am still puzzled about it for various reasons:
1. There are contradictory mentions about sacrifices to God in the Bible. On the one hand: "I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats" (Is, 1:11) ". Or, "...But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice'..." (Mt, 9:13)
Yet on the other hand, and most importantly, Jesus Christ himself is "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world".

2. Common sense tells us that animal or human blood sacrifices are not good. It is a usually cowardly and cinical to find 'scape-goats' to cover people's faults.

So my question to you, for an insight from someone with fresh ties to an Eastern ancient culture, is: What is it in a sacrifice -except the self-sacrifice of our Lord, that can be holy, and not an unacceptable act?


Thanks, and Peace be with you

Jaza

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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1. RE: Animal sacrifices: a barbaric vestige?

Jan-21-2002 at 11:03 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Last edited by Paul Younan on Jan-21-2002 at 01:53 PM (CT)

Shlama Akhi Javier,

I was waiting for someone to have questions about this and I am frankly surprised that it took this long for someone to ask.

Akhi - I am going to measure my response by what I have interpreted, from the wording of your question, is a misunderstanding of the basic types of sacrifices commanded in the O.T. This is a crucial point - because without it, you will indeed find the concept of sacrifice repugnant.

Some background on this topic - throughout the Semitic world, without exception, Jews, Christians and Muslims (and even heathens like the devil-worshipping Yezidees) all practice some sort of animal sacrifice. This is recorded throughout our history - of course most notably in our religious texts.

Many people in the Christian West, in particular, don't have a basic understanding of this topic - especially in reference to the O.T. or Semitic practice in general.

Firstly, it's very important to understand that not all sacrifices have to do with making a payment for a sin. 99.9% of Christians don't know this. In fact, the vast majority of sacrifices in the O.T. times had nothing to do with making amends with God (i.e., 'payment of sins.')

They were to thank Him. These are called the 'offers of thanksgiving' or 'thanksgiving sacrifices.' There were many types of offerings (Qur-ba-ne) that were, and still are, practiced by Semites of all creeds. These include Peace offerings, Free-will offerings, etc. (c.f. - Leviticus 7:11-34, 22:29, Psalm 50:14, Psalm 50:23, Pslam 116:17, etc., etc.)

The most important point I want to make here is this - be careful to not limit the meaning of the word 'sacrifice' to be only a sin-offering. To do so would greatly limit your understanding of this topic.

Christ, of course, is our final Sacrifice - the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. And no Eastern believer thinks that their sacrifices have anything to do with that concept. The need for a priest to sprinkle blood on an altar to absolve our sins is gone. We have an Eternal Priest who offers up his own blood forever as the final payment.

Now back to our original topic - the multitudes of sacrifices that our people have practiced since time began have nothing to do with sin payment. They were (and are) to thank God for his good graces, for an answered prayer, to answer a prayer - or simply to glorify Him. These types of sacrifices were by no means ended by the Sin Offering of Christ.

We find in Luqa that the Virgin even offered a Qurbana after the birth - "A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS" (Luke 2:21-24)

And beloved Akha - if these things are now forbidden by our new Faith, as the West claims, then how is it that even Paul offered Qurbana for the Aramean believers (Acts 21:26, as the law directs in Numbers 6:13-20 when he proposed to pay the charges of it, or at least part of it. ) ???

How is it that Mshikha Himself commanded the Leper who was healed - "but go thy way, show thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." (Luqa 5:14, Mattai 8:4 - c.f. Leviticus 14:1-14, 57)

Now, neither Paul nor the cleansed Leper, nor even the Virgin, were offering Qurbana for the forgiveness of sins. And neither do I. That's the critical point here to remember.

I vividly remember the first time I, as a young boy, witnessed this ancient ritual in practice. My father wanted to offer a lamb to God as a thanksgiving Qurbana for answering his prayer and healing my grandmother of an illness. We drove from Chicago to a farm in Wisconsin and purchased two lambs (both without blemish) from a farmer we knew and drove them all the way back to Chicago (of all places) where he slaughtered them in the back of the house near a sewer sink-hole - being very quick to limit the pain - and also careful to drain all of the blood according to our custom. Then the meat was cooked over several days and we passed it out in portions to the membership at the door of the church and also distributed large portions to the poor.

As many of you already know - my mother has been critically ill in the hospital for over 6 months now and recently my brother and sisters and I asked her if she'd like for us to offer a lamb as a request for her recovery. She nodded yes. As it's nearly impossible to do this here in the states anymore (unless you live on a farm), we asked a local Muslim butcher to do it for us, and so we distributed the meat afterwards in the normal fashion at the door of the church. Not quite the same - but better than being arrested for cruelty to animals. I guess it was easier to do it back home where you owned your own flock of sheep.

Anyway - I hope this answers your concerns (or, at least, gives you a better understanding of our customs.)

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Keith
 
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2. RE: Animal sacrifices: a barbaric vestige?

Jan-21-2002 at 07:05 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Akhi Paul,

What a beautiful explanation of this practice. I was aware of the numerous kinds of OT sacrifices that were unrelated to sin atonement. I guess I had just skimmed on by Acts 21:26 though. I'm going to have to ruminate on this one a while (get it ruminate, meaning clean ).


I was unaware that the Church of the East still practiced this ancient custom. Do any other orthodox Christian churches do this?

You know, the story of Mary's sacrifice in Luke and the instruction by our Lord to the leper to sacrifice in Luke and Matthew is well known. I have always assumed that because these guys (the leper and Mary) still lived during the old covenant then an old covenant sacrifice would be expected but this thing in Acts is someting new to me.

How is your mother? You probably know our family still prays for her recovery after our nightly Bible reading.

In Christ's Love,
Keith

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3. RE: Animal sacrifices: a barbaric vestige?

Jan-22-2002 at 02:47 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
Shlama Akhi Keith,

As far as I know - sacrifices are practiced universally by adherents of all the churches of the Middle East. Also by Muslims and Yezidees (devil-worshippers in Iraq.) It's not just a CoE thing. In fact, the CoE doesn't have any "institutionalized" sacrificial system - it's just something the people have always done, Semitic tradition, I guess.

Thanks for asking about my Mother. She's still on the ventilator and we are there everyday trying to give her support and company.

She had gotten to the point, back in November, where the "weaning" process to get her off the machine had completed. She had tolerated it well and was breathing on her own (CPAP?) for about a week and a half. The orders had come in to remove the tubing and disconnect her from the machine completely.

Then, unfortunately, she 'aspirated' - the same day that the orders to 'unhook' her from the machine came from the Dr's. That set her back to square one and now we are waiting for the 'weaning' process to begin again.

Thank you. Your prayers are appreciated and needed more than you can know.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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jaza
 
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4. ...and thank you.

Jan-24-2002 at 04:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Dear Akhi Paul,

Thanks so much for your open-hearted reply to my question. I admire the fact that you can share an ancient tradition practiced by the family of our beloved Jesus themselves! And although I don't fully understand it and feel the apparent conflict, there is His voice in my mind : "No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; or else the new piece pulls away from the old"

Thanks again, and I am also joining in a prayer for your mother's health.

Peace be with you,

Jaza

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vabra
 
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5. animal sacrifices

Jan-25-2002 at 09:04 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 
Dear Paul,

What do you say about the sacrifices that are made to the saints? Aren't the Assyrian people doing these for forgivness and for intercetion? Isn't there somewhere in the NT they wanted to to the same for Peter or Paul and they would not allow it?

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6. RE: animal sacrifices

Jan-26-2002 at 02:33 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
Dear Khati Vergeen,

I'm not sure I understand what the reference is. I've certainly never heard of sacrifices that are made to any Qaddishe/saints. Are you speaking in reference to the Church of the East?

Perhaps you may be thinking of a "Dukhrana" (Memorial) we hold on a particular feast day held for any number of "Qaddishe" in the church - but that's simply a feast day/memorial day and no animals are sacrificed for the occasion to my knowledge.

I can assure you - I've served as a Mshamshana/Shamasha (deacon) at Mar Yukhanan church in Chicago on several occasions, including dukhrane d'qaddishe - and I've never seen such a thing.

When a person gives an offering to God, it's of their own free will and not sanctioned by the church - they offer the meat of the sacrifice to the parishioners at the door of the church and it's never part of any official church ceremony.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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