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I wonder

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BarKhela
 
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I wonder

Jan-28-2002 at 07:01 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Greetings,

There are a couple questions I would like anyone who wishes to answer to answer.

1) Can a man actually sell his soul to the devil. Or,is this idea fictional? In other words, can a man sell his soul for worldly gain, power,and etc? Can a man literally lose his soul?

2)How many times can an Aramaic word be
conjugated? For instance, let's take the Spanish word "leer"(to read). You can conjugate that into "leeo"(I read), "lee"(he/she reads), "leemos"(we read),"leen"(they read), and "lees"(you read).

3)Does the CoE practice the same traditions that were passed down to them 2000 years ago. Or, has things changed within the Church? In other words, does the modern CoE practice what the ancient CoE practiced?

Thanking you in advance

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James_Trimm
 
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1. RE: I wonder

Jan-28-2002 at 07:45 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 

As I understand it the modern CoE is not Torah Observan and does not keep the biblical festivals, but does keep the Pagan Origin festivals like Christmas, Easter etc.

Like others I blieve they have traded the 7th day Sabbath for a Sunday Sabbath etc.

They are a post-Nicean church.

BUT they have preserved a great many, very important things such as an accurate Christology, Aramaic SCriptures Aramaic teechnical terms for Christology etc.

I do not write this to offend anyone, but only to answer the question wwhich was essentially does the CoE still practice the same things that the Nazarenes passed on to them in the first century.

Trimm

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Dean
 
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2. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 00:27 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
The last time I checked the original Christmas or "feast of Meshikha" (dinkha d'Meshikha) held on the 6th of January since ancient times HAS NO PAGAN connections nor origins.

Its celebration never really focused on the birthday, rather Yeshua's manifestation as Meshikha and Bareh d'Allaha at His baptism is its main theme.

The Feast of the Resurrection (eeda d'qayamta d'meshikha) in the correct context of the CoE observance has no Pagan elements or connection either.

James, it might be wiser for you to sit back and listen before youre so quick to demonstrate how little you know about the Church of the East.

-Dean

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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3. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 09:27 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
James,

Have you ever been to one of our churches in the Middle East or here in America? Next time you're in Chicago - let me know. I'll take you to my church and show you around. And I'd like for you to point out anything of pagan origin that you can find.

I do have one question for you - does the CoE follow the laws of Niddah, or not? Since this was a timely topic - I thought I'd bring it up. And since you're such an expert on the Church of the East - this is something you should know.

Akhi Khabiba Dean - as someone who was born and raised into the Semitic understanding and practice of Middle-Eastern Sephardic Judaism, and who has come to faith in Mshikha, and who now is baptized into the fold of the Church of the East - can you address James' concern where he states:

Like others I blieve they have traded the 7th day Sabbath for a Sunday Sabbath etc. ???

James - I've told you this before but it didn't seem to "stick" - the CoE is not a "post-Nicean" church (whatever you mean by that) nor did it participate in any manner, shape or form in the said council. It did approve of its canons - centuries later, and it does recite the Nicene Creed during service - but it was NOT a participant at Nicaea - which was in the Byzantine empire.

Don't make me prove it.

Finally - the Nazarenes (the real ones) in the first century did not only "pass on" our traditions to us - they actively became part of our church and today the CoE is actually the sole representative of that tradition (much to your displeasure, I'm sure.) THEY merged with US when Rome wouldn't have them - not the other way around. That's why the Islamic invaders always call the Patriarch of the Church of the East - "the Head of the Nazarenes" - even today.

This is not a movement founded in 20th century Hurst, Texas by a Scottish/American Indian/Irish convert to Messianic Judaism.

This is a continous community of Semitic believers who have preserved the ancient faith to a larger extent than any other ancient church. And they have suffered for their faith tremendously throughout their 2000-year existence while your ancestors sat snugly in post-Constantine Christian Europe.

They are also the community who have preserved for you the Aramaic scriptures - and you should really have more respect for them when speaking about these topics.

At least become more educated about our church before insulting it.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Dean
 
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6. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 03:06 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
>Akhi Khabiba Dean - as someone
>who was born and raised
>into the Semitic understanding and
>practice of Middle-Eastern Sephardic Judaism,
>and who has come to
>faith in Mshikha, and who
>now is baptized into the
>fold of the Church of
>the East - can you
>address James' concern where he
>states:
>
>Like others I blieve they have
>traded the 7th day Sabbath
>for a Sunday Sabbath etc.

>???


Well ... the last time I check the Aramaic word (ancient, modern, syriac, neo, east or west or you name it) for saturday is "Shabtah" just like the Hebrew "Shabbat"

Additionally, the word for sunday is "khad b'sheva" which means nothing more than "one of seven" Pure and simple just like God intedended !

These terms are pretty darn close to what I was raised with. Days of the week & months are almost identical. In fact, as a whole, closer than any other congregation I've seen, whether historic or reconstituted!

-Dean

PS: James, if you think Judaism is free of pagan influences, what have you done with the month of Tammuz?


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Rob
 
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4. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 10:16 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shalom, BarKhela!

Regarding question #2: go to the left and click on 'Aramaic Grammar', then click on 'Peal' under Section 4: Verbs. This should give you a good idea of whats going on with the basic congugation pattern.

Have you downloaded the script used on this page yet? If not, be sure to do that first (to the left, under 'Software Req.')

Have fun!

In Yeshua,
Rob


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John Marucci
 
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5. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 11:45 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 

Akhi Barkhela,

You asked:

2)How many times can an Aramaic word be conjugated? For instance, let's take the Spanish word "leer"(to read). You can conjugate that into "leeo"(I read), "lee"(he/she reads), "leemos"(we read),"leen"(they read), and "lees"(you read).

Aramaic is what linguists call a Root Based Inflection Language. What this means is that a root, a basic archetypal concept usually represented by three consonants called "radicals," is inflected into a group of related, but separate words.

For example, the verbs "he-was-born" (Pael) and "he-begot" (Aphal), are both derived from the root "yld" which has a connotation of birth and generation. They are related in that they are part of one root "family," but they have distinct shades of meaning from each other.

Below are links to two conjugation tables that I started last year. They are incomplete in several aspects. In theory, one root could fill up all the conjugations with its family of related words. In practice, however, most roots only use a few of the conjugation patterns for their families. If this is confusing or intimidating, it is because of my lack of skill in presenting this information, not because Aramaic is any harder to learn than any other language, Spanish included.

(Note that the conjugation patterns are in English transliteration and read from left to right.)

https://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/private/01_xxx.html
https://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/private/02_nxx.html

Shlama,
John Marucci

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BarKhela
 
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7. RE: I wonder

Jan-29-2002 at 09:29 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
Greetings,

Paul and Dean: So, are you saying that the traditions that are practiced today by the CoE were the same ones taught by Kefa, Mar Addai, and Bartheolew? It is good to know that the Nazarenes fused in with the CoE during Islamic attacks. It makes me proud of being a Gentile. I thank you for responding to my posts. I have MANY questions, so we can do this one day at a time.

John and Rob: Ooooo, I see. Well, Aramaic is kinda complicated. But I am not a stranger to dialect or different ways of saying something.In fact,I can speak in many dialects of English. Thank you for responding to my posts...
(By the way, Spanish is a nightmare)


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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
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Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

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