Assyrian Forums
 Home  |  Ads  |  Partners  |  Sponsors  |  Contact  |  FAQs  |  About  
 
   Holocaust  |  History  |  Library  |  People  |  TV-Radio  |  Forums  |  Community  |  Directory
  
   General  |  Activism  |  Arts  |  Education  |  Family  |  Financial  |  Government  |  Health  |  History  |  News  |  Religion  |  Science  |  Sports
   Greetings · Shläma · Bärev Dzez · Säludos · Grüße · Shälom · Χαιρετισμοί · Приветствия · 问候 · Bonjour · 挨拶 · تبریکات  · Selamlar · अभिवादन · Groete · التّحيّات

Insight from the Mishnah

Archived: Read only    Previous Topic Next Topic
Home Forums Peshitta Topic #849
Help Print Share
Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
Send email to Andrew Gabriel RothSend private message to Andrew Gabriel RothView profile of Andrew Gabriel RothAdd Andrew Gabriel Roth to your contact list
 
Member: Sep-6-2000
Posts: 384
Member Feedback

Insight from the Mishnah

Jan-31-2002 at 04:52 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Last edited by Andrew Gabriel Roth on Jan-31-2002 at 04:58 AM (CT)

Shlama all--

This is what the Mishnah says, tractate KELIM 1:15 (from Jacob Neusner, Yale University Press, p.893-4). The CAPS are my emphases, the parentheses are those of the translator trying to convey the full meaning of the Hebrew into English:

"The ten levels of uncleanness pertain to a man: 1) He whose atonement is incomplete is prohibited in regard to Holy Things(s) but permitted in regard to heave offering and in regard to tithe.

2)He to be a TEBUL YOM is prohibited in regard to Holy Thng(s) and in regard to heave offering but permitted in regard to tithe.

Now the remaining 8 levels of MANLY UNCLEANNESS deal with a wide variety of issues (lepers, semen emission, etc)but let's focus on these. The author (and the Rabbis) define a TEBUL YOM as:

"A person who has immersed in a ritual bath and awaits the setting of the sun, WHICH MARKS THE COMPLETION OF THE PROCESS OF PURIFICATION."
(Ibid, p. 1143)

So if either a man or a woman is unclean and has to do a ritual bath and wait for sunset, THEY ARE IN PURIFICATION. It is not just the woman and just that ritual that ipso facto demands it be only HER PURIFICATION.

The significance of the ruling is that ANYONE fitting the defintion of a TEBUL YOM IS IN HIS/HER PURIFICATION.

This is from the finest Mishnah scholar on the planet, and it validates what we have been saying all along. Mary is UNCLEAN when she goes up for HER PURIFICATION, and anyone who touches her is a TEBUL YOM, requiring THEIR PURIFICATION, which can, depending on how you interpret either be at sunset after Mikveh or else at the ritual where the blood itself is cleansed (assuming the men affected washed their clothes). I won't debabte that fine a point though, because EITHER WAY the ruling points clearly to how a reading of DAYS of THEIR PURIFICATION is perfectly valid. The day, ends AT SUNSET, at which point all affected are now CLEAN.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Print Top

 
Forums Topics  Previous Topic Next Topic
James_Trimm
 
Send email to James_TrimmSend private message to James_TrimmAdd James_Trimm to your contact list
 
Member:
Member Feedback

1. RE: Insight from the Mishnah

Jan-31-2002 at 09:13 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 

1. A woman only tranfers uncleanness when she is in "days of seperation" not in her "days of purification".

2. Neusener menations what he calls a "process of purification" which takes less than a day. He is NOT so far as I can see here referring to what the Torah calls "days of purification".

I believe that I have this correct and I have consulted with Avi ben Mordechai and he is f the same understanding that I am on this matter.

A male who is in contact (direct or indirect) with a woman who is in niddah (seperation) does not undergo any "days of purification". Even if Neusner refers to the few hours between their t'vila (ritual bath) and the end of the day (at evening) as a "process of purification".

BTW "TABUL YOM" means "immersion of a day"

I want to emphasize that Neusner is using his own language to describe the process and NOT definging the Torah term "days of purification". In fact he is speaking of a ritual which takes no more than one day to be totally complete.

Trimm


> Last edited
>by Andrew Gabriel Roth on
>Jan-31-2002 at 04:58 AM (CT)

>
>
>Shlama all--
>
>This is what the Mishnah says,
>tractate KELIM 1:15 (from Jacob
>Neusner, Yale University Press, p.893-4).
> The CAPS are my
>emphases, the parentheses are those
>of the translator trying to
>convey the full meaning of
>the Hebrew into English:
>
>"The ten levels of uncleanness pertain
>to a man: 1) He
>whose atonement is incomplete
> >the PURIFICATORY sacrifice] is prohibited
>in regard to Holy Things(s)
>but permitted in regard to
>heave offering and in regard
>to tithe.
>
>2)He
>to be a TEBUL YOM
>>HIS PURIFICATION] is prohibited in
>regard to Holy Thng(s) and
>in regard to heave offering
>but permitted in regard to
>tithe.
>
>Now the remaining 8 levels of
>MANLY UNCLEANNESS deal with a
>wide variety of issues (lepers,
>semen emission, etc)but let's focus
>on these. The author
>(and the Rabbis) define a
>TEBUL YOM as:
>
>"A person who has immersed in
>a ritual bath and awaits
>the setting of the sun,
>WHICH MARKS THE COMPLETION OF
>THE PROCESS OF PURIFICATION."
>(Ibid, p. 1143)
>
>So if either a man or
>a woman is unclean and
>has to do a ritual
>bath and wait for sunset,
>THEY ARE IN PURIFICATION.
>It is not just the
>woman and just that ritual
>that ipso facto demands it
>be only HER PURIFICATION.
>
>The significance of the ruling is
>that ANYONE fitting the defintion
>of a TEBUL YOM IS
>IN HIS/HER PURIFICATION.
>
>This is from the finest Mishnah
>scholar on the planet, and
>it validates what we have
>been saying all along. Mary
>is UNCLEAN when she goes
>up for HER PURIFICATION, and
>anyone who touches her is
>a TEBUL YOM, requiring THEIR
>PURIFICATION, which can, depending on
>how you interpret either be
>at sunset after Mikveh or
>else at the ritual where
>the blood itself is cleansed
>(assuming the men affected washed
>their clothes). I won't
>debabte that fine a point
>though, because EITHER WAY the
>ruling points clearly to how
>a reading of DAYS of
>THEIR PURIFICATION is perfectly valid.
> The day, ends AT
>SUNSET, at which point all
>affected are now CLEAN.
>
>Shlama w'burkate
>Andrew Gabriel Roth


Print Top
Andrew Gabriel Roth
 
Send email to Andrew Gabriel RothSend private message to Andrew Gabriel RothView profile of Andrew Gabriel RothAdd Andrew Gabriel Roth to your contact list
 
Member: Sep-6-2000
Posts: 384
Member Feedback

2. RE: Insight from the Mishnah

Jan-31-2002 at 05:59 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Akhi James:

I KNOW what TEBUL YOM means. The ONE DAY is sunset to sunset. I never said either Father or Son's purification lasted longer than a day.

What I was trying to get across was that the males have one day of purification and mother has days of purification meaning COLLECTIVELY that THEY HAVE DAYS of THEIR purification.

Let me say that again. The males do not go thru DAYS OF PURIFICATION but through a day of purification because the woman is IMPURE up until day 40. 1 day of purification + 33 days of purification=THEIR DAYS OF PURIFICATION.

During NIDDAH, the woman is unclean, as you said, but the Torah says she is not PURIFIED FROM HER BLOOD until that sacrifice on day 40. At best, you have found one possible interpretation and I the other. But it is not a smoking gun for the OS.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

Print Top

Forums Topics  Previous Topic Next Topic


Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

Please consider the environment when disposing of this material — read, reuse, recycle. ♻
AIM | Atour: The State of Assyria | Terms of Service