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Who is a Jew?

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Dean
 
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Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 03:30 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama l'kulkhon

James Trimm wrote:

>MANY people have, like myself, learned
>that some of their ancestors
>were ethinc Jews who lived
>as Christians, often for acceptance
>in a Christian world.
>This is NOT unussual at
>all.

That may be, but in the orthodox community, that wouldnt fly for one second!

You would not be considered Jewish by ANY orthodox Jewish synagogue or community if you walked in with such a preposterous claim!

You are more than welcome to convert, but if you havent converted under the authority of an Orthodox Rabbi, you are by no means Jewish!

And to go around claiming to be a Jew simply because some of your distant ancestors MAY have been Jewish, coupled with limited exposure to a synagogue is irresponsible, especially from someone in a position of authority.

Do you, James Trimm, qualify to make Aliya to Israel as a Jew??

Was your marriage to your Jewish wife recognized by the state of Israel? Do you have a Ketuba signed an orthodox Rabbi?

If you were a Jew, you would and you could!

But it seems that you are stretching every definition in order to establish yourself as a Jew in order to gain recognition and credibility.

Dont you realize that you'd be laughed out of any orthodox synagogue?

Its very simple -you either converted to orthodox Judaism or your mother was a Jew.

WHICH ONE WAS IT?

Based on what you've written thus far, you dont qualify on either count.

Someone who claims to know and teach Halakha should know better than to formulate such sloppy & deceptive reasoning.

Lets just distill it down to these two qualifications, shall we?

1)IS YOUR MOTHER A RECOGNIZED JEW BY THE ORTHODOX COMMUNITY?

or

2) WERE YOU CONVERTED TO JUDAISM BY A RECOGNIZED ORTHODOX JEWISH RABBI?

If you cannot answer "yes" to at least one of the above questions, I encourage you to stop falsely claiming Jewish identity. YOU ARE NOT A JEW.

Additionally, if you answered yes to question #2 only, than I encourage you to stop claiming Jewish ancestry! YOU ARE NOT A JEW BY BIRTH.

Anything short of the two qualifications above renders you a non-Jew in the eyes of the orthodox Jewish community. And the orthodox Jewish community has been the sole representative of Historic Judaism since the first century.

Now some might wonder well what about the other branches of Judaism Conservative and Reformed. Firstly, either other branch would throw out the distant ancestor theory as well as the Jew-by-Osmosis theory (i.e. I hung around a synagogue since age 14 story) The only real difference between the other Jewish branches deals with some accepting ones father as the determining factor and conversion by other groups are generally accepted by all groups except the orthodox.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not being Jewish. What is wrong is the Hijacking of an entire nationality and religious identity, claiming it as your own and redefining it!

-Dean

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James_Trimm
 
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1. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 03:50 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 

But I do not recognize Orthodox Judaism as the true expression of Judaism. Nazarene Judaism is the true expresion of Judaism. Orthodox Judaism stands in violation of Deut. 18:18.

So you will forgive me if I do not derive my definition of "who is a Jew"? from them.

Trimm

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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2. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 03:59 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
You are soooo delusional, James.

I think the psychiatric term for it is "Cognative Dissonance."

It's a very elementary principle about human psychology: A person's wants and desires influence more than just his behavior. They influence his thinking, as well, and even his powers of perception. This is true even with regard to things that would be otherwise intuitively obvious. Psychologists say that when a person is confronted by ideas or facts that are at odds with his pre-existing notions, what results is "cognitive dissonance," a sort of static in the human psyche. This "static" has the power to distort or even block perception.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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James_Trimm
 
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3. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 04:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 

There are no facts at odd with my preconcieved notions here. Since becoming a believer in Yeshua as Messiah I have not recognized the Orthodox Rabbis as the ultimate authorities. That was not a sudden shift in belief to account for a diiference between myself and them over "who is a Jew."

Trimm

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6. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 04:45 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
>There are no facts at odd
>with my preconcieved notions here.....

As always, we'll let the readers decide for themselves.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Dean
 
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4. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 04:23 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
So I'll take that as a "No" for both qualifying questions?

Lets see now ... The whole world is just sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for James Trimm to be the self-proclaimed True Jew?

You dont realize how precarious your reasoning is!

Since you dont recognize Orthodox Judaism, how can you trust that your Jewish Ancestors were real Jews since they could only be considered Jewish by the orthodox jewish leaders of their day?

You are using those you dont recognize to establish your own identity?

Very slippery ......

-Dean

PS: You do the same with the Peshitta. You USE the Church of the East for their scriptures just like you USE Orthodox Judaism for their identity.

>But I do not recognize Orthodox
>Judaism as the true expression
>of Judaism. Nazarene Judaism
>is the true expresion of
>Judaism. Orthodox Judaism stands
>in violation of Deut. 18:18.
>
>
>So you will forgive me if
>I do not derive my
>definition of "who is a
>Jew"? from them.
>
>Trimm


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James_Trimm
 
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5. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 04:45 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #4
 

Once again you are mixing up definitions. There are many definitions for the word Jew ranging from ethnic definitions to religious ones.

I don't USE the CoE for HER Scriptures.

The Peshitta NT is not HERS. It was authored by Nazarene Jews and adopted by her, indeed preserved by her.

The Peshitta is as much OUR Scriptures as Nazarene Jews as it is HERS.

The Peshitta Tanak originated in Judaism as did the Peshitta NT (or at least the Original Aramaic it represents).

Trimm

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7. RE: Who is a Jew?

Feb-01-2002 at 04:50 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #5
 
>Once again you are mixing up
>definitions. There are many
>definitions for the word Jew
>ranging from ethnic definitions to
>religious ones.

Cognitive Dissonance. You're a White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant.

>
>I don't USE the CoE for
>HER Scriptures.
>

More C.D.

>The Peshitta NT is not HERS.

Definitely more C.D.

> It was authored by
>Nazarene Jews and adopted by
>her, indeed preserved by her.

True.

>The Peshitta is as much OUR
>Scriptures as Nazarene Jews as
>it is HERS.

More C.D. - the Nazarenes died out centuries ago - YOU as a white-anglo-saxon-protestant from Hurst, Texas are NOT a Nazarene.

Get out of this Cognative Dissonance of yours already!

Man you're delusional! You probably fancy yourself the new "James of Jerusalem!"

You are SUCH a cultic figure it's not even funny anymore. You're starting to scare me. Like David Koresh all over again!

Are you stockpiling weapons at your compound?

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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