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singular/ plural issue

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singular/ plural issue

Feb-10-2002 at 09:40 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)


Paul, in a previous post you mentioned that originally the peshitta did not differentiate between singular and plural (I think) and that the plurals/singular differentiation was added to the text at a later date. (Hence giving rise to the greek versions sometimes giving the singular and sometimes the plural in translation)
Can you tell us exactly when this happened in the peshitta?

Thanks .....Michael

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Paul Younanmoderator

 
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1. RE: singular/ plural issue

Feb-10-2002 at 10:36 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Akhi Michael,

You have a fantastic memory, buddy.

>Paul, in a previous post you
>mentioned that originally the peshitta
>did not differentiate between singular
>and plural (I think) and
>that the plurals/singular differentiation was
>added to the text at
>a later date. (Hence giving
>rise to the greek versions
>sometimes giving the singular and
>sometimes the plural in translation)

Absolutely. By the way - the diacretical markings, or "dots", which later evolved to indicate plurality are called syame.

Unlike Hebrew which typically has a special suffix (i.e., "-Im") to denote plurality - Aramaic words are usually spelled the same whether in the singular or the plural.

I say usually because Akhi John Marucci will quickly remind me that it's not the case in the Absolute State - but only in the Emphatic. Well, 99% of the time the Emphatic case is used, anyway.

A simple example is the word Fnydm ("city") - in the plural Fn^ydm

Notice the two dots above the plural? Those are the syame markings that were invented much later.

As you can imagine - this made reading a text much easier.

>
>Can you tell us exactly when
>this happened in the peshitta?
>

It was very gradually implemented after the sixth century AD - long after the Greek versions with their disagreements on singular/plural issues were already in circulation.

It's just another strong clue - as Akhi Dean pointed out with those splendid examples - that the Greek is a translation - or, more accurately - as series of independent translations.

As Eusebius so truthfully put it - "...and everyone translated as best they could...."


Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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2. RE: singular/ plural issue

Feb-11-2002 at 12:14 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #1
 
Akhi Paul,

Isnt it true that even without the syame, surrounding words would indicate whether a words is plural or not?

For instance, the "her" of "her cities" would have a suffix different from the "her" of "her city"? Right?

-Dean


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3. RE: singular/ plural issue

Feb-11-2002 at 05:57 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 
Shlama Akhi Dean,

Yes - that's very true. Most of the time the singular/plural issue would be cleared up by taking into account suffixes of verbs and that type of thing.

But sometimes, by luck of the draw, the inference from the surrounding text cannot be made - and these are the perfect examples of how the Greeks had to make a decision - many times contradicting other Greek translations - and, walla - you have a sign that the Greek is a translation of an Aramaic source.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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