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Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

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Laco
 
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Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

Feb-24-2002 at 00:32 AM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

Shlama Paul!
The discussion Greek Love that you opened gives me much light as I expected...

But now there is something else... I know how we are set in the space of language we speak and what a shifts in meaning come if something is being translated from one language to another. Im trying to understand the differences among ancient cultures in the way they realized the time, viewed themselves in the world, were set up... I found some things about Ancient Hebrew... Is there any site where I could find some comparison between Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic (mentality; main language paterns - verbs aspects: imperfect, perfect, participle...; world vision; non reflected a priori...). Do they both reflect the same inner-world, inner-dynamic or not?
Thanks!
Laco


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Rob
 
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1. RE: Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

Feb-25-2002 at 06:24 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama, Laco,

My name is Rob. I like your question, and I hope you don't mind me giving my 'two cents'!
My persepective lacks the advantage of 'native fluency', such as Akhi Paul, but I have studied Hebrew (and now Aramaic) very intensely, and would like to share what I've seen.

If you become familiar with the fundamentals of Hebrew grammar and the Hebrew Bible, then you can begin reading inscriptions from archeological finds from the Canaan area, called 'north west Semitic'. These inscriptions come from various times and offer insight into the development of NW Semitic languages (Ugaritic, Phoenician, Aramaic, Hebrew, Ammonite, Moabite, etc...) In actual inscriptions, these languages sometimes 'overlap' each other, and you'll see a blending of what you'd normally classify as 'Hebrew' or 'Aramaic' etc., each inscription reflecting a culture of the site at which they were found.

I encourage you to find some books, even in translation, on 'Inscriptions from Biblical times' or the like, but also, I encourage you to get a good grasp on Aramaic and Hebrew grammars (an essential element in chewing on the 'world view' of the Ancient Scriptures!)

I hope this note is of some assistance to you!

Shlama,
Rob



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2. RE: Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

Feb-25-2002 at 09:38 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #0
 
Shlama Laco,

Hebrew (and Arabic) descend directly from Aramaic (Abraham, their Patriarch, was a Chaldean and Chaldeans were made up of 5 distinct Aramean tribes.) Therefore, there is much that is shared between these two descendents of Aramaic as well as between each and it's parent (Aramaic.)

The relationship of Hebrew (and Arabic) to Aramaic is somewhat like the relationship of the Spanish spoken in Spain and the Spanish dialects spoken in the New World.

Having said that, many centuries passed between the Aramaic world of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the time of Jesus. In particular, two distinct languages formed with heavy influence from their new neighbors.

Aramaic also became influenced by it's neighbors - and changed over time. By the time of Christ, the Aramaic that was spoken would not be very familiar to Abraham.

Hebrew and Arabic, by the time of Christ, shared a core structure, alphabet and prose with Aramaic - but little else.

Therefore it would be wrong to say that they are 100% the same in regards to mentality and dynamics. They are not exactly the same - although they are about as close as three languages can get while still being considered different languages.

Hebrew must be studied in and of itself, with occasional reference to it's parent, Aramaic, and it's neighbors (like Ugaritic.) Same goes for Arabic.

Aramaic must be studied in and of itself with occasional reference to it's predecessors (like Akkadian), and it's neighbors (like Persian.)

In cases where Aramaic was adopted (or, re-adopted) by other groups as a second language (like the Jews), then it must be studied with occasional reference to that group's original language.

Also, any other languages which were used in the area, like Greek, Latin or Persian must at times be consulted.

This is the case with the Galilean and Judean speech of the New Testament times. It's Aramaic, but with heavy doses of Hebrew, Greek, Latin and even a little bit of Persian.

Which is exactly what we would expect it to be.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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3. RE: Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

Feb-26-2002 at 05:40 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #2
 

Shlama Paul, Rob....

Thanks both of you!
Do you agree on such understanding as gives
https://www.geocities.com/ancient_hebrew/2_chapter2.html ?

Are you able to join point out - something like this that would be Aramaic?

Laco

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4. RE: Hebrew mind = Aramaic mind?

Mar-04-2002 at 10:15 PM (UTC+3 Nineveh, Assyria)

In reply to message #3
 
Shlama Laco,

I do agree with much of the content of the website you pointed out.

Some of these issues became fixed and very problematic for the early church. For instance, when you study the very different philosophies of what are called "the School of Antioch" and "the School of Alexandria" - you can see these two cultures (Greek and Semitic) colliding on an immense scale.

For information on the Allegorical (Greek) approach to interpreting scripture as championed by the School of Alexandria - check out:
https://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/alexandria.stm

For information on the Literal (Semitic) approach to interpreting scripture as championed by the School of Antioch - check out:
https://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/antioch.stm

The CoE has always belonged to the latter school - which, in part, explains the later schisms which happened in the universal Church.

For instance, a quote from that websiste:

Scholars of this school (Antioch) dismissed allegorical meanings as so much nonsense and insisted on reading for the historical and grammatical meaning.

What the text said was what it meant. It did not convey some abstract philosophical concepts

As you can see, I take that approach when translating and when approaching controversies. I'm very much a part of that tradition in my thinking.

Fk^rwbw 0ml4

Peshitta.org

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Assyria \ã-'sir-é-ä\ n (1998)   1:  an ancient empire of Ashur   2:  a democratic state in Bet-Nahren, Assyria (northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria.)   3:  a democratic state that fosters the social and political rights to all of its inhabitants irrespective of their religion, race, or gender   4:  a democratic state that believes in the freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture in faithfulness to the principles of the United Nations Charter — Atour synonym

Ethnicity, Religion, Language
» Israeli, Jewish, Hebrew
» Assyrian, Christian, Aramaic
» Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Arabic
Assyrian \ã-'sir-é-an\ adj or n (1998)   1:  descendants of the ancient empire of Ashur   2:  the Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic.  These formal divisions had their origin in the 5th century of the Christian Era.  No one can coherently understand the Assyrians as a whole until he can distinguish that which is religion or church from that which is nation -- a matter which is particularly difficult for the people from the western world to understand; for in the East, by force of circumstances beyond their control, religion has been made, from time immemorial, virtually into a criterion of nationality.   3:  the Assyrians have been referred to as Aramaean, Aramaye, Ashuraya, Ashureen, Ashuri, Ashuroyo, Assyrio-Chaldean, Aturaya, Chaldean, Chaldo, ChaldoAssyrian, ChaldoAssyrio, Jacobite, Kaldany, Kaldu, Kasdu, Malabar, Maronite, Maronaya, Nestorian, Nestornaye, Oromoye, Suraya, Syriac, Syrian, Syriani, Suryoye, Suryoyo and Telkeffee. — Assyrianism verb

Aramaic \ar-é-'máik\ n (1998)   1:  a Semitic language which became the lingua franca of the Middle East during the ancient Assyrian empire.   2:  has been referred to as Neo-Aramaic, Neo-Syriac, Classical Syriac, Syriac, Suryoyo, Swadaya and Turoyo.

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